Shooting foul or pass??

[Mark Dexter]

I know this is one that has been discussed before, but I can't seem to find any of the threads (you'd be amazed by how many posts come up when you search for "shooting foul" :-D)

A1 drives the lane, picks up his dribble, jumps into the air. B1 then hacks A1's arms, forcing A1 to throw the ball down into a pass. Do you shoot two free throws, or rule that this was a pass attempt.

We had a double whistle and (thankfully) both my partner and I signalled a shooting foul. My rationale was that picking up the dribble and jumping was the "characteristic motion before the shot" and that he would have shot if not for the foul forcing his hands down.

Any thoughts? What if there is clearly no one in the area to which the ball was thrown? How about whistle before/after release?

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by Mark Dexter
I know this is one that has been discussed before, but I can't seem to find any of the threads (you'd be amazed by how many posts come up when you search for "shooting foul" :-D)

A1 drives the lane, picks up his dribble, jumps into the air. B1 then hacks A1's arms, forcing A1 to throw the ball down into a pass. Do you shoot two free throws, or rule that this was a pass attempt.

We had a double whistle and (thankfully) both my partner and I signalled a shooting foul. My rationale was that picking up the dribble and jumping was the "characteristic motion before the shot" and that he would have shot if not for the foul forcing his hands down.

Any thoughts? What if there is clearly no one in the area to which the ball was thrown? How about whistle before/after release?

Good call. At the time of the foul, what was he trying to do? Doesn't matter what he does after the foul. By the same reasoning, a player can't turn a foul into a shooting foul by flipping the ball up only after the foul unless you feel he was shooting it all along.

[dragonref]

This brings up a couple of situations I have been thinking about.

a) A1 is driving the lane - already has ball in both hands and can still shoot or pass - gets fouled by B1. It could be the start of a shooting motion but he could still be faking the shot and looking to pass. Many smaller players will drive to the basket, draw the defense and then dish it off to a big man once they are in the air. The advice I would give myself is to have a slow whistle and let the play develop, especially if it has already happened in this game.

b) Big man in the lane has picked up his dribble. Pump fakes once - no foul. Does same initial motion, but this time is fouled before he would have normally released the ball on a shot and before you can tell if it was another pump fake. Is this a shooting foul? This one has been tougher for me to reason out than the other.

Thanks - I read alot on this board but seldom post. It definitely makes me think about some plays that could easily happen in one of my games.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by dragonref
Big man in the lane has picked up his dribble. Pump fakes once - no foul. Does same initial motion, but this time is fouled before he would have normally released the ball on a shot and before you can tell if it was another pump fake. Is this a shooting foul? This one has been tougher for me to reason out than the other.

I say shooting foul. You can't tell if it's a fake until it is finished and he didn't get to finish!