Traveling
 

Hello,

I feel that I am not understanding traveling violation enough to call it often.

Any help on clarifying traveling in game situations...

Thanks!

Give us some specific plays/scenarios.

One situation that's particularly tough to call sometimes is when A1 lifts his pivot foot before starting a dribble.

1) Player rolls around with the ball on floor..but does not ROLLOVER from Back to front or front to back.

2) Player sits on his butt with the ball

3) player drops to his knee while holding the ball

I don't know what that means, "rolls around with the ball." If he's on his back or belly and rolls over, it's traveling. Opinions very on whether roll over means to his side or from back to belly or belly to back. If he rolls from either to his side, I have traveling as that's what the rule clearly states to me.

It's nothing unless he attempts to get up.

Always traveling anytime a player holding the ball tocuhes the floor with any part of his body other than his foot or hand.

More for rookies ...

What if player with the ball is flat on his back and does a sit-up to a sitting position?

What if a player with ball has established left foot as pivot, drops to his right knee, but maintains his left pivot foot?

As do I. I've never had a clear-cut line drawn on the "roll over" rule, but as I understand it, belly/back to side (90 degrees) is enough for a travel. I think this rule could use a rewrite, for clarity's sake and get everyone on the same page.

Quote:
3) player drops to his knee while holding the ball

Always traveling anytime a player holding the ball tocuhes the floor with any part of his body other than his foot or hand.

Does that apply if he continues his dribble and stands up?

Ask yourself this, is it possible to travel while dribbling?

Identify the pivot foot.

Coach: Thats a travel
Me: Which foot did you have as the pivot
Coach: ????
Me: STFU (in my head)

From The Files Of The Mythbusters ...
 

(Please note: The Mythbusters do not usually deal in complex travel issues such as those involving jump stops. Please consult your rulebook for this information.)

The traveling rule is one of the most misunderstood rules in basketball. To start a dribble, the ball must be released before the pivot foot is lifted. On a pass or a shot, the pivot foot may be lifted, but may not return to the floor before the ball is released. A player may slide on the floor while trying to secure a loose ball until that player’s momentum stops. At that point that player cannot attempt to get up or rollover. A player securing a ball while on the floor cannot attempt to stand up unless that player starts a dribble. A player in this situation may also pass, shoot, or request a timeout. If the player is flat on his or her back, that player may sit up without violating.

During a fumble the player is not in control of the ball, and therefore, cannot be called for a traveling violation. A fumble is the accidental loss of player control when the ball is unintentionally dropped or slips from a player’s grasp. After a player has ended a dribble and fumbled the ball, that player may recover the ball without violating. Any steps taken during the recovery of a fumble are not traveling, regardless of how far the ball goes and the amount of advantage that is gained. It is always legal to recover a fumble, even at the end of a dribble, however that player cannot begin a new dribble, which would be an illegal dribble violation. A player who fumbles the ball when receiving a pass may legally start a dribble.

The shooter can retrieve his or her own airball, if the referee considers it to be a shot attempt. The release ends team control. It is not a violation for that player to start another dribble at that point. When an airborne player keeps control of an attempted shot that is blocked and is unable to release the ball and returns to the floor with it, that player has not traveled; it is a held ball. If, in this situation, the shooter loses control of the ball because of the block, then this is simply a blocked shot and play continues. If, in this situation, the defender simply touches the ball, and the airborne shooter returns to the floor holding the ball, it’s a traveling violation. When an airborne player tries for goal, sees that the try will be blocked, purposely drops the ball, and picks up the ball after it hits the floor, that player has traveled by starting a dribble with the pivot foot off the floor.

Palming or carrying is when the ball comes to rest in the player's hand, and the player either travels with the ball, or dribbles a second time. There is no restriction as to how high a player may bounce the ball, provided the ball does not come to rest in a player’s hand. Steps taken during a dribble are not traveling, including several that are sometimes taken when a high dribble takes place. It is not possible for a player to travel during a dribble.

Some simple things:

If they lift their pivot foot before dribbling = travel

If they change their pivot foot = travel

If they lift their pivot foot and pass/shoot before putting it down = Fine

If they leave the floor holding ball and come back down with it =Love of gawd call something.

IMO: I try to avoid calling "it looked funny". If after the fact I realise it was a travel, they got away with one. If I don't see the traveling footwork I don't call it.

Alway? What if a player while gathering the ball momentum takes he or she to the floor.

Why do you guys make this stuff difficult?

We said from the get-go if the player was HOLDING the ball. If he's holding the ball when he touches the floor with anythign other than his hand or foot, it's traveling.

If he's HOLDING the ball, he's not DRIBBLING, is he?

You can't travel unless you're HOLDING the ball.*

Quote:
3) player drops to his knee while holding the ball

Always traveling anytime a player holding the ball tocuhes the floor with any part of his body other than his foot or hand.


Always is a strong word because if you are in one of those places that uses NCAA women's rules ( such as colleges) and NYS high school girls basketball this is not a travel violation. It is recognized that just dropping to one kneee does not necessarily mean the pivot foot moved illegally.

Huh? That's not the provision being violated.

Rule reference please...

Before it is a travelling violation the player has to fail to maintain the pivot foot. Just dropping to one knee does not mean the player failed to maintain the pivot foot in NCAA.

Case Book A.R. 117.3
"When a player falls to one knee while holding the ball, it is traveling if the pivot foot moves."
(Rule 4-70.6 and 4-70.1)

And you did notice, "because it is virtually impossible not to move the pivot foot when falling to the playing floor" in the ruling on 1 & 2?

1. refers to falling to the floor while holding the ball without maintaining a pivot foot, which of course is a violation.

2. states the player dropped to both knees without maintaining a pivot foot, of course a violation.

Yes it states it is vitually impossible to fall and maintain a pivot foot, but all 3 state that the pivot foot must move for the violation to occur. Just dropping to one knee does not mean that the pivot foot moved.

I believe this was also a quiz in a recent "Referee" magazine and it did distinguish between Fed and NCAA interpretations on dropping to one knee. Fed it is a travel violation. In NCAA the pivot foot must move.

Gotcha! So in HS its automatic & NCAA its a judgment call...

Agreed.

FED rules are the standard here, unless something else is specified (which you did)

It might be a judgment call in NCAA but it's also automatic. Traveling is called. It's the expected and accepted call.

Yes, that is one rule that the fanatics seem to comprehend :)

What if player with the ball is flat on his back and does a sit-up to a sitting position?

I would say this is not a travel since your already on the ground.

Case book play 4.44.5 Situation B answers your question exactly.

Most of that, too. :)

Understanding the rules of "traveling vs not traveling", at least for me, is the easy part.

The hard part is being able to pick out the traveling violations in a game situation. As it stands right now, at least once a game I'll see a traveling violation, and my brain will lock up and do the "ummm... uh.... uh..... oh yeah, that's a travel" routine. The problem is that by the time my brain gets to "that's a travel", 2-3 seconds have passed and it's really too late to call it.

It also seems like my partners usually are calling more traveling violations then I am during the course of a game.

Any tips on how I can improve my "that's a travel" awareness?

I know they tell us to referee the defense, but identifying the pivot foot as soon as the player receives the ball is really the only way to adjudicate properly...

Try a team officiating concept on post entry passes:
L - officiates the defender(s)
T - picks up the pivot foot
C - prepare for the curl play

i've found that if you simply call traveling when it "looks funny", you'll keep the fans, coaches, and players happy...they don't know the rules either...:)

oh wait...that could apply to "over-and-back" violations, "over-the-back" fouls, 3 second violations, illegal screens, block/charge plays, hand-check plays, "carrying" violations...well I guess it's EVERYTHING really!

+1

I had this one in Boys JV game the other day. Team A shoots a 3, long rebound at an angle toward the table. B1 grabs the ball with one hand and tries to baseball pass down court. The ball slips out of his hand on the follow through and goes about 10 feet in the air and forward about 4-5 feet, he takes a couple of steps and catches the ball. The player then proceeded to pass the ball. A's coach wanted traveling. I had a no-call. It was one of those "funny looking" plays. Did I blow it?

By rule, a player is always able to recover a fumble which is what this sounds like to me. Good no call.

I told the coach that I considered it a fumble. He politely disagreed, saying the player had control and basically "passed to himself" although not intentionally.

Judgment call. Was it a fumble, or did he throw the ball, but it just happened to be off target. This could be a travel. 4.44.3 D

Well, I considered it a fumble because he was trying to pass it about 60 feet downcourt to a teammate and it slipped out and ended up only going about 5 feet. He just happened to not have anyone else around and moved forward and caught the ball.

Reference for FED??

Well by rule, a fumble is accidental loss of player control.

We can't have a travel since a player isn't holding the ball. We can't have an illegal dribble because a dribble is movement of the ball caused by a player in control who bats (intentionally strikes the ball with the hand(s)) or pushes the ball to the floor...and we've already established that a fumble is accidental loss of player control.

Thus, a player can always retrieve a fumble. Now we get paid the big bucks (excluding a certain state) to determine what is and isn't a fumble.

NFHS case book play 4.15.4SitD(d)

This Case discusses dribbling. This situation was during an attempt at a pass. Would it still apply??

If you deemed the play a fumble, it would apply. And you have already stated in your post #36 above that it was a fumble and not a pass.The concept applies to all fumbles. As APG said, a player can always legally recover a fumble.