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-   -   Three (3) point attempt made, then changed to a 2 point goal (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/61975-three-3-point-attempt-made-then-changed-2-point-goal.html)

jearef Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:23pm
Seems to me that most of us are discounting the possibility that the shot we are talking about was a "deep corner" three. If that is the case, especially on a last second shot, the lead may actually be in a better position to see the shooter's feet than the trail.

Absent that situation, however, I agree with everyone else. Lead has no business going to the T unless he is absolutely certain the call was missed. I also agree that the table should not have been consulted. The book lets us consult the timer if the question is whether the shot was released in time; there is no provision for consulting the table for a 2 vs. 3 call.

Adam Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jearef (Post 727495)
Seems to me that most of us are discounting the possibility that the shot we are talking about was a "deep corner" three.
It's being discounted because it's impossible given the scenario posted in the OP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny1784 (Post 727388)
A1 shoots a shot from behind the three point line and the trail official indicates a three point attempt. The trail official’s position is straight-line with shooters feet. The shot by A1 goes in and trail official signals the shot is good at buzzer. The lead official thinks the shooter A1 was touching the 3 point line and confronts trail official who isn’t sure it was in fact a 3 point attempt. Trail official then asked the table what they saw. Table personnel agree with lead official that A1’s toes where on the 3 point line. Trail official waves off the 3 point goal and instructs table to change to a 2 point goal for Team A. Team A lost the game by 1 point. <b> Was the correct method applied to wave off the 3 point goal? <b>

jdw3018 Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:03pm
I don't suppose it's actually impossible, but it would make for an interesting discussion in the locker room after the game about properly working for a good angle as the ball goes away from you at trail...

Adam Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:26pm
Unless the T is sitting two feet off the end line, there's no way he gets a straightline view of the feet on a deep-corner three.

jdw3018 Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 727530)
Unless the T is sitting two feet off the end line, there's no way he gets a straightline view of the feet on a deep-corner three.
That's my point. It would make for a good discussion. :D

jearef Tue Feb 08, 2011 08:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 727519)
It's being discounted because it's impossible given the scenario posted in the OP.
And some folks say that subtlety is a lost art. Snaq, I'm good with the red font, but 275 point type? Maybe just a bit over the top?

As you know, sometimes discussions that begin with a particular play situation evolve into a discussion of overall philosophy. I (incorrectly) assumed we were talking generally about whether it is ever acceptable for lead to offer information to the trail on a 3-point shot.

That having been said, the point you make is certainly well-taken. In the immortal words of Emily Litella, "That's very different. Never mind." :D

Adam Tue Feb 08, 2011 09:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jearef (Post 727574)
And some folks say that subtlety is a lost art. Snaq, I'm good with the red font, but 275 point type? Maybe just a bit over the top?

As you know, sometimes discussions that begin with a particular play situation evolve into a discussion of overall philosophy. I (incorrectly) assumed we were talking generally about whether it is ever acceptable for lead to offer information to the trail on a 3-point shot.

That having been said, the point you make is certainly well-taken. In the immortal words of Emily Litella, "That's very different. Never mind." :D
LOL, yeah it was over the top. Overall stressful day, sorry.

johnny1784 Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 727392)
Are you getting this info 1st-hand, 2nd-hand, or 3rd-hand?

As described, no, this was not handled correctly.
From the source, one of the two game officials.

jearef Tue Feb 08, 2011 11:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 727579)
LOL, yeah it was over the top. Overall stressful day, sorry.
No prob. I'm not a frequent poster, but I am a frequent reader. I figured you were having a bad day. Happens to all of us. ;)

johnny1784 Tue Feb 08, 2011 11:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jearef (Post 727574)
And some folks say that subtlety is a lost art. Snaq, I'm good with the red font, but 275 point type? Maybe just a bit over the top?

As you know, sometimes discussions that begin with a particular play situation evolve into a discussion of overall philosophy. I (incorrectly) assumed we were talking generally about whether it is ever acceptable for lead to offer information to the trail on a 3-point shot.

That having been said, the point you make is certainly well-taken. In the immortal words of Emily Litella, "That's very different. Never mind." :D
Yes, is it ever acceptable for the lead to offer information to the trail on a 3-point shot, and is it conceivable that a crew would consult with table on plays such as this?

I would hope other ref's could offer good advice for those officials involved, along with me wanting to know your thoughts.

I would not want to consult the table unless another official wearing stripes was sitting there as part of the table crew. Somewhat like during regional and state playoffs.


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