"Over The Back"
 

I was watching a boys V game last night and saw the Official call "Over The Back" using the signal that imitates a player going over the back. I have seen this on at least 3 different occasions this year during a Varsity game. Does this bother anyone else other than me? To me it shows that the Official obviously must not attend clinics otherwise that would be corrected and his parters do not inform him of his error. Am I off base here or does this bother others also?

Not an approved signal at any level. Stay away from it. If your partner is an old dog you won't change him. If a newer official, try to offer constructive critisim.

It bothers 99% of those on this site.

I hate the tiger paw mechanic. :mad:

Should bother 100%
 

Wow!:D

It perpetuates the myth. I don't even use the phrase in conversation. I've seen guys use it, too, and it bugs the crap out of me. Wish they'd have to forfeit their game fee if they do that.

The conversation bothers me more because it suggests they clearly do not understand the rule. Then again I do not see anyone giving that signal very often if ever.

Peace

I haven't seen that 'mechanic' yet, but I did see a "gator chomp" (like Florida Gators fans do) last week in a game I was watching. Not sure what it was supposed to mean. The offending action was blocked from my view.

i used that mechanic once...my first game in my first year. still remember it. i remember how the bench guy smiled at me when i did the "tiger paw." during the next dead ball my veteran partner asked me about it. he kindly explained to me that there is no such mechanic...that i should use a push.

i'm grateful for his (and all the guys/gals in my pool) teachings to this day.

It usually means that "the ball was blocked; it's not a foul."

Don't use it.

Thank you for the clarification, Bob, and I won't!

When I have a partner who is in the habit of using that signal, or the 'foul tip' mechanic in a shooting situation, I routinely reach across and call a shooting foul. Cures them pretty quick.;)

or the 'foul tip' mechanic in a shooting situation,

what is this?

I am not sure I totally agree with that. For one the chop signal is for clarification and to give information. The "over the back" signal is to call something based on something that is not a rule. We used to use the "kicking" signal and it was not approved (even the "palming" signal was used and not approved at one time). And I know officials that use the "tip" signal for multiple purposes to give information. I am not advocating using this signal, but just saying that we do a lot of things that are not approved and no one gets upset over the situation.

To be clear I would not use that signal during most live ball or right as a player is being defended, but I have used it before. Never been told not to or it was wrong.

Peace

I've seen big time NCAA officials put both arms straight up and bring them forward/down to show that a player was vertical but brought the arms forward/down and fouled the shooter. It's a mechanic that may not be approved but communicates the foul far better than a hit/hack mechanic ever could.

Same with the hit to the head (in an NFHS game). If I hit the head, nobody ever questions me. If I use the usual hit/hack mechanic, I'm just as likely to hear from a coach that "he didn't hit him on the arm."

I try to use proper mechanics when they fit, but I'm not a slave to them 100% of the time, either.

Bumping from Behind
 

Many years ago I was watching a lower level Girls game and while reporting/describing the foul the official said "Bumping from behind" while giving a pelvic thrusting motion.:eek:

This is why I say exactly what the player did when I go to the table instead of the usual "push" or "handcheck."

Peace

Mandatory jail sentence now. :D

The OTB mechanic still makes me cringe whenever I see it. Fortunately, I've only seen it at the sub-varsity level and I'll make it a point to talk that official if I can after the game.

I hope I haven't misunderstood what you are advocating here.

The Boris Karloff mechanic is probably the worst one out there. Though, if I ever saw that Elvis one, I might have to re-think my position.

Recall a partner...
 

... who gave the 'rainbow' mechanic on a ball over the backboard. Cracked me up.

Help
 

I've picked up the Gator chop somehow on occasion and don't know where...or how to rid myself of it:(

I would suggest becoming a Seminole fan, but you'd just be trading one mechanic for another.

I am already which is why I cannot do the "chop" but once or twice a season. :D

Peace

Point taken, but those guys don't stop at a single chop per play.

Keep watching the guys doing varsity though. You will see alot of things you shouldn't do. But you will also see alot of things you should do. The key is to figure out the rights from the wrongs and what works for you.

I have used these on only two kinds of plays. One the play is over after I have ruled on a jump ball and the reason is the "topping" of the ball on a shot.

The other time is on a several block sequence and I am totally ruling on this in my primary. Not saying that it is the thing to do, just do it on a sell of a no-call. But the first situation is when I would use it more often as it is a dead ball when I would even think to use it in most situations.

Peace

Yep!!!

Peace

I've seen major conference men's D-I officials make the creeping death signal. I laugh, sure, but they keep on keeping on. It's not that important, except to other officials.

This Isn't A NFHS Signal ???
 

I try to think of these unofficial mechanics as "tool of communication."

Why do you suppose these people advance when they clearly get the mechanics wrong, and perpetuate myths with their choice of words?

Because in the big picture it doesn't matter as much as many officials think it does (or would like it to).

I had a player fumble a ball he was receiving while taking a couple of steps in transition last night. When the coach said something about a travel, I gave a fumble signal and the complaining stopped. Bad Rich. Bad, bad Rich.

It's obviously not a career killer for some, but it still perpetuates a myth. Sort of like the traveling signal on a throwin spot violation.

"On The Floor" ???
 

Even if these "unofficial mechanics" perpetuate myths?

From the Mythbusters file:

Over the back is not a foul. There must be illegal contact to have a foul. A taller player may often be able to get a rebound over a shorter player, even if the shorter player has good rebounding position. If the shorter player is displaced, then a pushing foul must be called. A rebounding player, with an inside position, while boxing out, is not allowed to push back or displace an opponent, which is a pushing foul.

With rare exceptions, stick to the book. Call it a push. Don't call it, or signal it, "Over the back".

That is the part that bugs me. You can communicate with coaches like in Rich's example, but that differs from giving a signal at the table. Guys can be 'over the back' all night long, but if there isn't any contact, it's nothing. Maybe we need a 'cherry picking' mechanic.

When I report the similar foul listed above, I verbalize 'hit to the head' or 'wasn't straight up' while giving the usual hit/hack mechanic. Oh crap, we're not supposed to verbalize the foul when reporting.

Are You A Contortionist ???
 

It's Wild, It's Tricky, It's Wild And Tricky ...
 

I know more about the Latvian Gambit than I know about NCAA mechanics, but isn't this a proper mechanic for womens games.

Stay Away From It ...
 

Sounds too much like the infamous Boris Karloff mechanic (See image above).

+1

It's easy as hell to tweak your officials' mechanics if you think they might be causing a problem. If the mechanics aren't causing a problem, .....

It's a helluva lot harder to tweak their play calling, judgment, etc.

The most important mechanic by far is proper positioning imo. Signals are meant to convey information. If they do that, fine with me.

+1

I've done the same thing, in the same situation, with the same effect.

Must be. All I know is, as hard it the mechanics are pushed on the newbies, you'd have to hold the vets to the same standard.

Another thing to think about is the fact that the vets have (typically) learned when it's helpful to deviate from the standard mechanics. It may seem counterintuitive, but the only way to be effective when deviating is to have the proper mechanics down pat.

It's like calling out of your area? Are there times when it's appropriate and helpful? Sure, but the newer officials aren't as likely to understand the difference, and are more likely to see it as a license to ball watch.

Officials Want To Be Him, Women Want To Be With Him ...
 

Almost agree. Except some of the really old grizzled veterans. We've got a forty plus year veteran on our local board who wouldn't know a basketball mechanic from a football mechanic. But we all want to be his partner, because he can officiate the sh** out of a game.

Had a BV game where it seemed all the home players were 6 inches taller than any of the visiting players. Naturally, white got 80%+ of the rebounds, and red was crying all night for ... guess what ... over the back. I had to bite my tongue several times from telling the coach that tall is not a foul... :)

Yes it is.

so if boris karloff is the over the back signal, who's the fumble signal? this guy?

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2008/0410...tbyner_200.jpg

I just did the Ickey Shuffle.

Wait A Minute, That Was Another Thread, Nevermind ...
 

C'mon mbyron. This is the twenty-first century. Get with it. The correct terms are Caucasian, and Native American.

Great point, There is NO SUCH call as "over the back". Alzheimer's or not, ANYONE should know this.

Any any official worth their salt would know what over the back is too. At least the kind of play you asked a question about for sure. ;)

Peace

all nice and shiny like

Lol
 

LOL, love it. ;)