Should I Have Run Him?

[YooperRef]

I had a JVG game last night where the following occurred in the second half. I am lead administering the throw-in. Visiting team is inbounding the ball on the endline near their basket. V1 inbounds the ball, steps on the court then steps back OOB and runs 15-20 ft. along the endline (OOB the entire time) and re-enters the court on the opposite side of the lane. Surprised me a little but I whistle the violation for unauthorized leaving the court. V coach runs down to the endline line where I am, grabs my arm, and asks what call I've got. I explain that leaving the court in the manner his player did is a violation. His response, "The hell it is" (loud enough for players and probably fans to hear). I T'd him up. Report the T to the table and let him know he's lost the use of coaching box.

I'm thinking that I should have ejected him for grabbing my arm (not roughly) or possibly issued a T for coming on to the court and a T for his response. It all happened pretty fast. Any thoughts?

[Adam]

Wow. My first thought was a flagrant for grabbing your arm, but I'm hesitating after you noted it wasn't a rough grab. Frankly, all three things deserve a T, but they all happened so quick I'd just go with one probably.

One thing I'd do differently, I would have likely had a T about the time he was grabbing my arm. Anything he says after that risks another one.

[RobbyinTN]

I would have T'd him the second he grabbed my arm which probably would have stopped the comment but if he still said something , I would have T'd him again. If any coach or player touches me in any form or fashion other than a friendly jesture they are T'd immediately.

[tref]

Originally Posted by YooperRef

I had a JVG game last night where the following occurred in the second half. I am lead administering the throw-in. Visiting team is inbounding the ball on the endline near their basket. V1 inbounds the ball, steps on the court then steps back OOB and runs 15-20 ft. along the endline (OOB the entire time) and re-enters the court on the opposite side of the lane. Surprised me a little but I whistle the violation for unauthorized leaving the court. V coach runs down to the endline line where I am, grabs my arm, and asks what call I've got. I explain that leaving the court in the manner his player did is a violation. His response, "The hell it is" (loud enough for players and probably fans to hear). I T'd him up. Report the T to the table and let him know he's lost the use of coaching box.

I'm thinking that I should have ejected him for grabbing my arm (not roughly) or possibly issued a T for coming on to the court and a T for his response. It all happened pretty fast. Any thoughts?

I would've whacked him for leaving the box & "touching" me, period, no matter how hard or soft.

No explaination after the T... maybe, "Get a rulebook coach, like Ragu... its in there!"

[Adam]

After that, I'd probably tell him to go dust off the rule book in his office and read through rule 9. Then I'd have to issue an apology later.

[Loudwhistle]

Originally Posted by YooperRef

I had a JVG game last night where the following occurred in the second half. I am lead administering the throw-in. Visiting team is inbounding the ball on the endline near their basket. V1 inbounds the ball, steps on the court then steps back OOB and runs 15-20 ft. along the endline (OOB the entire time) and re-enters the court on the opposite side of the lane. Surprised me a little but I whistle the violation for unauthorized leaving the court. V coach runs down to the endline line where I am, grabs my arm, and asks what call I've got. I explain that leaving the court in the manner his player did is a violation. His response, "The hell it is" (loud enough for players and probably fans to hear). I T'd him up. Report the T to the table and let him know he's lost the use of coaching box.

I'm thinking that I should have ejected him for grabbing my arm (not roughly) or possibly issued a T for coming on to the court and a T for his response. It all happened pretty fast. Any thoughts?

Do you know this coach personally? I would have T'd for 3 reasons!

[TimTaylor]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Wow. My first thought was a flagrant for grabbing your arm, but I'm hesitating after you noted it wasn't a rough grab. Frankly, all three things deserve a T, but they all happened so quick I'd just go with one probably.

One thing I'd do differently, I would have likely had a T about the time he was grabbing my arm. Anything he says after that risks another one.

agree....

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by YooperRef

I had a JVG game last night where the following occurred in the second half. I am lead administering the throw-in. Visiting team is inbounding the ball on the endline near their basket. V1 inbounds the ball, steps on the court then steps back OOB and runs 15-20 ft. along the endline (OOB the entire time) and re-enters the court on the opposite side of the lane. Surprised me a little but I whistle the violation for unauthorized leaving the court. V coach runs down to the endline line where I am, grabs my arm, and asks what call I've got. I explain that leaving the court in the manner his player did is a violation. His response, "The hell it is" (loud enough for players and probably fans to hear). I T'd him up. Report the T to the table and let him know he's lost the use of coaching box.

I'm thinking that I should have ejected him for grabbing my arm (not roughly) or possibly issued a T for coming on to the court and a T for his response. It all happened pretty fast. Any thoughts?

I know things can happen very quickly on the court and things are always much easier in hindsight or commenting on a message board.

But I think you made a mistake in giving the coach ANY explanation when he is that far out of the box. When I see the coach "running" down to the endline I'm giving him a two hand stop sign and telling him to get back in the box. Depending on how quickly it happens, I will say something like, "Coach, I'll give you an explanantion but you need to be in the box."

And there is no justification for him grabbing your arm, no matter how gently he does it. And especially when he is that far out of his box. A coach even thinking they can run onto the court and question a call in this manner is unacceptable.

I would have run him and not thought twice about it.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

I know things can happen very quickly on the court and things are always much easier in hindsight or commenting on a message board.

But I think you made a mistake in giving the coach ANY explanation when he is that far out of the box. When I see the coach "running" down to the endline I'm giving him a two hand stop sign and telling him to get back in the box. Depending on how quickly it happens, I will say something like, "Coach, I'll give you an explanantion but you need to be in the box."

And there is no justification for him grabbing your arm, no matter how gently he does it. And especially when he is that far out of his box. A coach even thinking they can run onto the court and question a call in this manner is unacceptable.

I would have run him and not thought twice about it.

I'd go a step further. I'd T him immediately -- even before he reached me if I was quick enough to get the whistle up to my mouth. After that, I won't say anything to him until the coach is on the bench.

"We're not discussing anything until you're on the bench."

I'd be hard-pressed to keep him in the game if he grabbed my arm.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

...I would have run him and not thought twice about it.

yU.P.

In memory of Mick and also seeing where you (OP) are from!

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I'd go a step further. I'd T him immediately -- even before he reached me if I was quick enough to get the whistle up to my mouth. After that, I won't say anything to him until the coach is on the bench.

"We're not discussing anything until you're on the bench."

I'd be hard-pressed to keep him in the game if he grabbed my arm.

Agreed. If a coach walks out of his box to protest a call I will try to talk him back like I expect most officials do. But if he's "running" that far out of the box, it should be an automatic T. If for some reason you can't get your whistle ready or get the T for runnning out then when you signal him back to the box and he doesnt IMMEDIATELY go back then you still have an automatic T.

And the arm grab is just unacceptable in this situation, and really almost any situation. At the risk of sounding sexist and unprofessional we have a GV HC in my area that is over 6 ft tall and very attractive. She tends to question a lot of calls but always does so with a soft, almost flirty kind of voice. The whole thing is kind of wierd. When I do her games she may get away with a soft tug on the arm right in front of her bench but....again it's just a wierd situation and you can of have to let her know "Coach, you can't flirt your way to getting calls." But not in those words. Like I said, the whole thing is kind of wierd but I digress.

Bottom line is, there is no justification for a coach to come "running" out of the box or to grab your arm. Do both of these things and a coach should be tossed, pretty much no questions asked.

BTW- to the OP, you say you were on the endline. How close to his bench were you? I can understand the situation a little more if you were right by his bench and he came down the sideline.

[YooperRef]

Thanks for all the input everyone. I'm still kicking the situation around in my head.

I started the play on the opposite side of the lane from V's bench. The inbounder ran towards the bench when she committed the violation and I took a 3 or 4 steps in her direction when I made the call. I was about in the middle of the lane, maybe 25 ft away from the end of the V's bench.

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by YooperRef

Thanks for all the input everyone. I'm still kicking the situation around in my head.

I started the play on the opposite side of the lane from V's bench. The inbounder ran towards the bench when she committed the violation and I took a 3 or 4 steps in her direction when I made the call. I was about in the middle of the lane, maybe 25 ft away from the end of the V's bench.

In that case, EASILY a flagrant T. No way a coach gets 25 ft onto the court and touches me, in ANY way. See ya!

And again, absolutely NO Way you should have given the coach ANY explanation at all when he is this clearly out of line.

Like I said before, I know it's much easier in hindsight but you, and any official, really cant tolerate this kind of behavior. I'm not sure how experienced you are, but I know it took me a while to truly feel comfortble with issuing Ts and knowing how to respond to coaches who pull BS like this. You did stick him but I think a flagrant T is what was needed here. But we live and learn. Thanks for sharing this.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

In that case, EASILY a flagrant T. No way a coach gets 25 ft onto the court and touches me, in ANY way. See ya!

And again, absolutely NO Way you should have given the coach ANY explanation at all when he is this clearly out of line.

Like I said before, I know it's much easier in hindsight but you, and any official, really cant tolerate this kind of behavior. I'm not sure how experienced you are, but I know it took me a while to truly feel comfortble with issuing Ts and knowing how to respond to coaches who pull BS like this. You did stick him but I think a flagrant T is what was needed here. But we live and learn. Thanks for sharing this.

Yup. And after I assess the flagrant T, I'm not explaining anything -- that coach no longer exists.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by YooperRef

Thanks for all the input everyone. I'm still kicking the situation around in my head.

I started the play on the opposite side of the lane from V's bench. The inbounder ran towards the bench when she committed the violation and I took a 3 or 4 steps in her direction when I made the call. I was about in the middle of the lane, maybe 25 ft away from the end of the V's bench.

So, the coach was all the way out to the lane on the endline?

Hmmm...that's a long way to be onto the court and not get tossed - especially considering he grabbed you. I imagined you were near his sideline.