Another NF question....HOw many 2-man refs do we have here that come strong side in two man? I know in 3 man you are supposed to but I have heard differing opinions on 2 man.

Larks
VIT

I do.

I do as well. I tell my partner in our pre-game that I will be moving over but will move back at change of possession or as action dictates. That way he/she can cheat to the middle while we are on the same side but they won't try to move across and risk getting in the way of a fast-break if there is a turnover.

I don't..........
 

and never have. I was never taught that way and the times I usually do 2 man is so far in between each other, I just have never felt confrontable doing that. But usually this is not much of a problem. Other than the summer I really do not do much 2 man.

Peace

I do

The only way to adequately cover play is for the lead to go strong side

I do and I don't. I was taught to do it in Colorado. In Texas, I have been taught not to. If I am working with a partner who is comfortible with the mechanic then I do it. If I work with a partner who isn't then I won't. After working three man games, I am more comfortible with going strong side.

When I call a game where we are not going strong side, then the leads floor ends at the oposite free throw lane line. This means, I am expecting the trail to pick up any action away from the lead on the baseline.

Some games I do and some games I don't. If a team has a player that spends a lot of time posting up on the low block, I may cross a few times during the game to get a better angle on the post action. If a team is more perimeter oriented or just "flashes" to a post-up spot occasionally and then moves out right away when they don't get the ball, I may never cross the whole game.

Z

I am doing my first game of the season(second year) this afternoon and this was one of the major things I was going to bring up at our pre-game.

In our association, they want us to go strong side, but not everyone seems to do it. It's one thing that I want to clear in pre-games this year. Obviously, both officials have to be on the same page on this.

I am curious as to how far do you go to the strong side? I have been taught to go as far as the edge of the restricted area on the strong side (Box 6). And similarly to the comment by Larry S, our trail would never switch in that situation. The lead would go back to his normal position when the situation dictated it.

Jay

Jay, by "restricted area" I'm assuming you mean the three-second lane? I can't find what you're referring to by "Box 6", but if you look in the 2001-2003 NFHS Basketball Officials Manual, on page 25 there is a diagram. It's labeled Diagram 10 and it shows the proper positioning for when the Lead official moves ballside. They want you to go almost halfway between the lane line and the 3-point line. That way you look back into the paint (just like you would from your "normal" position). Don't stop when you get to the far lane line. Keep going.

If you were talking about the "restricted area" in the NBA-sense, then disregard everything I've just said, b/c I don't know anything about NBA 2-man mechanics.

Chuck

Chuck,

We use FIBA rules. Thus the term "Restricted Area". Yes I do mean the three-second lane. Plus in the two-man FIBA mechanics, the front court is divided into six boxes. I was asuming American officials use those six boxes as well. Know what happens when we ASSume.

Jay



[Edited by Jay R on Nov 3rd, 2002 at 02:43 PM]

Oh, ok Jay. I gotcha now. In that case, you can forget about everything I said b/c I don't know anything about FIBA 2-man mechanics either!!! LOL :D

chuck

I go to ball side aggresively in 2 man, particularly if
there's a good match up in the low post. I pregame this
because the T's focus changes when the L goes ball side
in 2 man.

After watching FIBA two man on TV during the olympics and other international compititions. Yes, the mechanic is very similar to what we use in America. When I went to camp, they taught us only three positions. Wide, Closedown, and strong side. The one place to stand strong side is where you would close down to when you were on the other side.

I, also, go to strong-side in two-man.
There's no reason for my partner to be alone on a side with 8 players. I'm there to help.

Please help me out here!
 

Covering the right areas and positioning is something I need to work on. In 2-man, will you switch over to strong-side regardless of whether you are L or T? If I were T, I'd be nervous about getting in the way.

I don't recall having had this discussion on here before, and I'd just like to hear more about how you make the decision to move and how you handle getting switched back, etc...

Tx.

The concept is similar to the three man mechanic. The T never crosses the court during live ball action. The L may opt to rotate over to the strong side to get a better angle for post play and entry plays coming into their primary.

In this manner, you are able to help with off ball picks, swim moves and cutters in the paint. It's more difficult to see these plays if you are looking through the players with the defense generally in front of you.

Warning: If you do this remember three things.

1. Make sure you pre-game this and your partner is
experienced enough to "handle" the rotation. Other-
wise, you may find him "rotating" with you to main-
tain the box.
2. When you rotate, remember that the opposite side-
line is still yours, and that you have to rotate
back over in transition.
3. Don't bother rotating if all you're going to do is go
get a better look at the ball handler in T's primary.
:o)

The way I like to think of it is having a rubber band around your waste. You may rotate over but you know at some point you must rotate back.

I prefer to keep the rubber band around my waist. I hate dragging my trash around with me all game :D

Chuck

(Sorry, Tim!! That was a cheapie. LOL)

I reworked my thought process in the two-man game a couple weeks ago.

I was trail on right side with 7 players, and my partner came over. He properly squared up on the lane to observe the post play.

I had A1 dribble down the sideline, to the end line, while being defended by B1.
As A1 turned toward the basket, about 4' on my partner's left, B1 bumped A1 causing A1 to step on the end line.

"Tweet!"

My partner called and out-of-bounds violation.

<u>The Problem</u>: I gave up the play to my partner, as I would do in a three-whistle, but the play was in my primary, and my partner was "on" his primary.
I should have taken the play deeper until I knew my partner was on it. There was no way he could have seen the bump peripherally while being squared-up on the lane.

mick
<hr> Too soon old... too late smart.

mick, seems to me that if your partner is ball side but not officiating the ball that you need to stay on the ballhandler. The fact that the L is ball side doesn't necessarily mean he's leaving his off-ball responsibilities. I'm sure you know that, tho. It's important for the T (or the C, in 3-man) to continue to officiate the ball until the L has "accepted" the play. That means the L is in position and is officiating the ball.

Preaching to the choir, I know. . . :)

Chuck

Chuck,
YU.P.!

Now that brings up the point of "When does our partner own the ball?"

Some oficials turn their torsos directly at the ball.
Other officials put an open hand on their chest.
There are probably other mechanics employed.

It is obviously important to be aware of your partner and the ball in these instances in order to avoid confusion.

mick

Mick
 

According to the mechanics book, it was changed that the Trail would have all ball when it is on his side. I do not think going ball side as the Lead changes this. But who knows?

Peace

Re: Mick
 

Yeah, Rut.
I just instinctively gave it.
The wrong call ... it was all me.
I am not sure that two-man mechanics addresses strong-side, but it may.
mick

Mick-
Just thinking back to another post on when time was running out, one of the mechanics that was stated "putting the hand on chest" to let your partner know that time was winding down. I know this should be covered in a pre-game with your partner(s). I know it also maybe different from association, or region, or even state.

AK ref SE

AK ref SE,
YU.P., ...that's the signal we use for last shot responsibility so one guy isn't counting a basket and the other isn't waving it off.

All these little nuances of pointing and body language can make a difference in how a crew appears. Few of them are in the rules; few are in a test.
What we pre-game is our <b><i>Presence</b></i>. ;)

mick

The one and only!!!
 

You are one of a kind. ;)

Presents? A partner once offered me $20 to just go home during a pregame...does that count as a present?

Yeah. Rrrrrriiiiight!
Like you have a partner that had $20 bucks.

well, he took up a collection...2 coaches, 3 table people,
4 bucks each, he just had to make the offer and carry the
money. I found out later I was supposed to get $25....
boy was I :mad: