inbounds delay
 

8A District Tournament/Championship Game... Two Man Mechanics and I am L inbounding at endline with :47 seconds left. Team B is up by 3 and Team A is inbounding. I look to my partner to make sure he is ready and he hits his whistle and gives me a wait sign. Team B was first out of huddle and was lined up in backcourt. He informed them that we were inbounding ball and allows them time to come to frontcourt. Coach A is furious and starts yelling and my partner "T's" him up. Greatly affected game... Thoughts.

Get teams out of the time-out on time, and put the ball in play properly. If the defense is slow to set up, too bad. If they come out on time and get set in a timely fashion, I'll wait a second or two.

Clarity, please. Who's he and who's them? Are you saying B-1 informed A-2 (or something like that) that it's Team B's ball, to delay Team A?

Rookie partner ?????

Team A was inbounding and my partner stopped game and allowed defensive team to change sides. I could not inbound to Team A while partner was out on court with hand up waving Team B to correct side of court. Hope that clears up the mud...

As the non-administering official, I wouldn't have said jack, let alone stop the game. (Unless asked of course.)

As the administering official, I always signal direction and team very clearly so that there is no defense to bad defense.

no rookie, 15 year Division I guy.

I was standing at endline hollering "White", "Spot"... coach and team clearly heard me and just set defense up on wrong side. I had ball in hand and arm in the air to chop clock. Partner did not want to have the game come down to a mistake, which it did... OURS.

Really? I don't see it as such a big deal.

Did you point the direction when you called out "White"?

If I read this right, it's an 8th grade game, right? Just asking for context purposes.

There are times when there is legitimate confusion and I have no problem holding up play to get players going the right direction. There are also times when it's okay to proceed.

Unless I've talked to my partner about how B can't get it right and the coach isn't helping things, I've got no problem if he decides to hold things up for a second coming out of a timeout to make sure everything is clear.

yes I pointed and the 8th grade game was 75-72 at the time. Two good teams and both experienced enough to know procedure.

Not really. I've got no problem with either solution, frankly; and coach for A needs to take some perspective pills.

Repeat yourself. EIGHTH grade. The coaches need perspective (I guess it's OK to win anyway possible instead of beating the other team playing its best) and if I'm working this game there's no way I'm putting the ball in play with a team lining up on the wrong side of the court. Good for your partner.

Are you saying that a Division I college official is working 8th grade games?

Thanks for the replies. I just felt like my partner stopped Team A from the basket, unsporting as it was, and had a quick trigger on T. Changed score by 3 to five and gave B the ball.

By your own words, the coach was yelling at your partner. Easy T in an 8th grade game, regardless of the situation.

If a coach is yelling at me, the only appropriate words are "time out."

He is D I but I don't know if he is doing colege ball. He does plenty of big V gaames here in Texas. Again, I agree about the unsporting advantage. I will get more succinct in my posts. The quick T bothered me the most.

When you say D1 around here, we generally assume D1 college. As far as the play, it sucks to work. I can see both sides. I would tend to do what your partner did as this was an 8th grade game. As far as quick on the T, you mention that this guy is a high school official of some merit in your state. I doubt if he was going to take much crap off an 8th grade coach.

+1

Much? I'm just a garden variety HS official and I'd take just a bit more than none.

The more I think about this, the more I hate being in this situation.

I dislike coaching players. Players already have a coach and in doing so, places the other team at a disadvantage. What if an official says something that is contrary to what the actual coach said?

To place B in this situation does seem like a cheap way to administer the game.

I suppose I could interpret that that defense didn't see which direction the calling official pointed.

Why? How much crap is your partner required to tolerate?

And please don't tell me it was the "end of a close game," as if that gives coaches carte blanche to crap on officials.

Exactly. It's the end of a close game, therefore it's even more important that the coach maintain his cool. My technical filter is pretty consistent -- if it draws a technical in the first quarter, it will probably draw one in the last minute.

(I say probably because I've passed on one or two in blowouts where I was in "get done, get out" mode.)

Not sure what this means. A high school official of some merit who happens to be calling an 8th grade game is, at the moment, an 8th grade official. I don't see why he should take any more or any less crap than any other 8th grade official.

I'm with your partner on holding up play until the confusion is sorted out. Just as I'm not going to put the ball in play with either team having only 4 players or 6 players on the court, I'm not putting the ball in play when a team gets turned around during a time-out.

I consider this basic preventative officiating.

Now if I've pointed and called the color a few times and they still don't want to come to play, that's up to them, but I'm going to make sure I've communicated the information to them.

I am saying that if you interject yourself into the coaching arena, by coming on the court and stopping play, moving Team B players while they are directly in front of their coach, Team A coach should have the right to ask you what you are doing. The coach's exact words were, "What are you doing? The ball is ready for play...?" And again, I was clearly pointing and the Team B coach was loking right at me.

Holding the ball from play until the teams are ready after a time-out is not interjecting yourself into the coaching arena. It's actually part of our job. From your description, your partner did not stop play; he prevented play from being started. This is an important distinction. Finally, I don't have an issue with the coach asking what I'm doing provided he's civil in doing so. The answer he is also easy "No, coach the ball is not ready for play."

Because he has more experience and is more likely to call a technical foul when bad behavior happens than a guy with less experience. Look at the post by the OP for example -- he thinks it's terrible that the experienced partner (who sounds like he works some decent HS varsity games) called a T "in that situation." I think that the OP would be better served here saying, "You know, he has a lot more experience than I do. Perhaps I could learn from him."

My line doesn't adjust when I work a youth game. It may be different than the line drawn by all the other officials this guy will see, but I fail to see how this is my problem. For the most part, the rare time I fill in at this level I get along great with the coaches. I listen, answer questions, and leave no doubt where that line is.

As a general rule, HS V officials have a better definition of "their line" than do 8th grade officials, and the line is also more toward the side of taking less.

It's not "ready for play" until ALL officials are ready.

You can't put it in play until I bring my hand down. If you try to, I'll blow my whistle and make you wait until I'm ready.

You said what I said better and in fewer words, too.

Um, I hate to tell you but the ball wasn't ready for play. it wasn't ready for play because your partner wasn't ready to have the ball put into play. And an administering official does not put the ball into play because a coach ....any coach...tells him to if his partner isn't ready.

This may have been a competititive or even (gasp) an elite 8th grade game.....but.....it's a freaking 8th grade game. Save the philosophical discussions for after the game and have them with your partner. That's the time to work them out, not during an 8th grade game. And if you can't agree and it's still bothering you, get further direction from your association.

JMGO.

I'm sorry, but you said he was yelling. As I said, if he's yelling at me, the only words that won't draw a T are "time out." Even then, it better be a loud gym.

Just for clarification, when he says "Division I", he is more than likely referring to how we rank officials here in Texas. In basketball, there are 5 divisions of officials, with Division 5 being the new officials and Division 1 being the most experienced.

And, FWIW, I'm with the senior official on this.

wow rich msn... i never said it was terrible. however, i was trying to offer a post for commentary. i will try to refrain from pi$$ing you regulars off. i was looking for some experienced wisdom. i DID and always talk to my partner. i do this pre game and post game. my partner is the one that thought he kicked the handling. I will try to be as exact with posts/replies. i am only trying to learn.

Relax, take a deep breath. You've offered a post for commentary, but the part you left out was your partner's second thoughts. No one here was pissed, but the general opinion here is
1) If your partner chose to delay play, no big deal.
2) The coach "yelling" at him is an easy T.

i dig that, but to assume i thought it was "terrible" and insinuate jealousy is absurd. I may only be a D3 in basketball but I am a D1 in football and have enough experience in baseball not to feel that way. i guess i need to post more thorough in OP. i will take the advice and work on it.

I missed the insinuation of jealousy. I wouldn't get hung up on the semantics of Rich's paraphrase. You are the one who claimed your partner injected himself into the game. It's a reasonable assumption to think you felt it was terrible.

Agreed.

The OP said that the game came down to the officiating crews mistake. I think that's an ABSURD point of view to take in this sitution, especially as an official.

It does not matter that you were standing at the spot yelling white. These are 13-14 year old kids who could have gotten easily confused in a pressure situation. If I'm your partner here, I would have held my hand up too. Why would you put the ball in play unless there was clearly some sort of gamesmanship/advantage the other team was getting by going to the wrong end of the floor?

As for the "T" I think that's a HTBT situation. But if you said the coach was "yelling" then I'm inclined to trust your partner's judgement.