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-   -   Shirts tucked in (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/6131-shirts-tucked.html)

A Dutch Ref Thu Oct 31, 2002 03:42am

I hope you American (or elsewere) fellows can help me out on this one: I can't find any single person that can explane to me WHY the shirts have to be tucked in. The only reply I get is: It is in the rules. Anyone with an idea on this???

Thanks,
ADR

JRutledge Thu Oct 31, 2002 03:51am

It is too early in the morning.
 
The rules makers want everyone to be uniform. It is that simple. Not sure what else you want to know? It also helps to not have unfair play by keeping the shirts tucked in. At least this is my take.

I need to go to bed.

Peace


CYO Butch Thu Oct 31, 2002 08:02am

Question about Questions from a Coach
 
My take on why it is a good idea (as opposed to why it is in the rules) is that contact on a loose jersey might make it hard to determine if actual contact had occured. I think of a baseball player from years ago (my age is showing) named Minnie Minnoso (sp?) who I believe still hold the record for the most times being hit by a pitch. He wore a slightly oversized uniform top and let it hang out as he leaned over the plate. He got to first a whole lot of times when the ball hit his shirt but nothing else.

RecRef Thu Oct 31, 2002 09:36am

Years back I was at a clinic where the question was asked. One of the 2 instructors took a step back and reached over and pulled the shirt out of his partner’s pants. His simple statement was, “Now we know for sure there was a hold.”

Bart Tyson Thu Oct 31, 2002 09:44am

Dress code, looks more professional, shirt out looks sloppy.

rgaudreau Thu Oct 31, 2002 10:04am

Is there an actual rule reference for this?

Jurassic Referee Thu Oct 31, 2002 10:33am

Quote:

Originally posted by rgaudreau
Is there an actual rule reference for this?
Are you serious?

If you are,see NFHS R3-4-15.

rgaudreau Thu Oct 31, 2002 11:22am

I simply wanted to find it in the rule book. To be perfectly honest, this is a rule I`ve always applied, but never really took the time to look up.

I enjoy the part in that rule that says the pants shall be worn "ABOVE THE HIPS".

I guess kids today could try and wear them below the hips like they wear their jeans.

Jurassic Referee Thu Oct 31, 2002 11:38am

Quote:

Originally posted by rgaudreau
I enjoy the part in that rule that says the pants shall be worn "ABOVE THE HIPS".

I guess kids today could try and wear them below the hips like they wear their jeans.

Kids today do exactly that.At the start of the season,it's fairly common to tell players to pull their pants up.Female variety,too.

Mregor Thu Oct 31, 2002 11:40am

Shirts in and shorts above the hips
 
At our local rules meeting, they emphasized the shirts and shorts issue. They stated that if you see underwear (boxers) during the game, it is an automatic technical. The reason was that during the pregame, the coach certifies that his player are properly equiped. I like the fact that the association took a uniform stance but I think it is severe. I plan on addressing the state rules interpreter for their read. The rule, 3-4-15 states they shall be directed to leave the game. To me, that is adequate punishment. In the past, when I have a problem I tell them to pull them up. When they pull them up a half inch, I tell them it is one of the simplest rules we have and if he doesn't pull them above the hips, he will have to leave the game. That usually worked.

A Dutch Ref Thu Oct 31, 2002 12:14pm

And how about the shorts? If they are so long that they fall over the knees? (There is no rule on this one under FIBA).

ER

ChuckElias Thu Oct 31, 2002 04:15pm

Re: Question about Questions from a Coach
 
Quote:

Originally posted by CYO Butch
I think of a baseball player from years ago (my age is showing) named Minnie Minnoso (sp?) who I believe still hold the record for the most times being hit by a pitch.
That doesn't show your age too much, Butch. Minnie last played in the early '80s. The White Sox tried to get him on their roster in 1990, but the Commissioner's office would not allow the contract. Minnie holds the record for "most decades played in", and the ChiSox were trying to extend that record into the '90s as a publicity stunt. But doesn't Don Baylor hold the record for most times HBP?

Chuck

Dan_ref Thu Oct 31, 2002 04:36pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Quote:

Originally posted by rgaudreau
I enjoy the part in that rule that says the pants shall be worn "ABOVE THE HIPS".

I guess kids today could try and wear them below the hips like they wear their jeans.

Kids today....


So compared to you who does not qualify as a kid? Walter Mondale? Frank Lautenburgh? Moses? :p

Hey you kids! Get off my lawn!

http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/mica/Cartangry.gif

ChuckElias Thu Oct 31, 2002 04:58pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Dan_ref
Hey you kids! Get off my lawn!

http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/mica/Cartangry.gif

Hey Dan, how long you been waiting for somebody to mention being old, just so you could use that animation? LOL :D I love that one, BTW

Chuck

jjaw2 Thu Oct 31, 2002 05:52pm

If shirt is tucked in, asses can't show. It's a asketball game not a hip-hop style show.

Mark Dexter Thu Oct 31, 2002 06:02pm

Re: Shirts in and shorts above the hips
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Mregor
At our local rules meeting, they emphasized the shirts and shorts issue. They stated that if you see underwear (boxers) during the game, it is an automatic technical. The reason was that during the pregame, the coach certifies that his player are properly equiped.
Just one problem with this one. It's fine for an association to have an automatic 'T' if the undergarments are showing (It could be unsportsmanlike conduct), but the justification is not appropriate. 2.4.5 states that there should be no penalty to a player or the coach, even though there is certification that the players are properly equipped.

PAULK1 Thu Oct 31, 2002 06:52pm

We were given pretty strict guideance at the state clinic this year. The first words out of the State Comm. were
"PULL YOUR PANTS UP AND TUCK YOUR SHIRT IN" which he repeated 5 times. If they don't comply they sit, if they are
at the table waiting to come in an not in compliance they stay at the table and if you tell them and they tuck and then pull out over the waist band they sit. It will be interesting to see how long it will last.

Jurassic Referee Thu Oct 31, 2002 08:10pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Dan_ref
[/B]

So compared to you who does not qualify as a kid? Walter Mondale? Frank Lautenburgh? Moses? :p

[/B][/QUOTE]People who have holes in their haircuts don't qualify as kids,Dan'l!!

I'm still a kid! :D

How 'bout you? :confused:

Dan_ref Thu Oct 31, 2002 09:10pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Quote:

Originally posted by Dan_ref

So compared to you who does not qualify as a kid? Walter Mondale? Frank Lautenburgh? Moses? :p

[/B]
People who have holes in their haircuts don't qualify as kids,Dan'l!!

I'm still a kid! :D

How 'bout you? :confused: [/B][/QUOTE]

Me? I'm a puppy. But my head gets very cold in the winter,
very sunburned in the summer. ;)

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Thu Oct 31, 2002 11:25pm

Re: Re: Shirts in and shorts above the hips
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Mark Dexter
Quote:

Originally posted by Mregor
At our local rules meeting, they emphasized the shirts and shorts issue. They stated that if you see underwear (boxers) during the game, it is an automatic technical. The reason was that during the pregame, the coach certifies that his player are properly equiped.
Just one problem with this one. It's fine for an association to have an automatic 'T' if the undergarments are showing (It could be unsportsmanlike conduct), but the justification is not appropriate. 2.4.5 states that there should be no penalty to a player or the coach, even though there is certification that the players are properly equipped.


Mark, your posting beat me to it. But I don't think that any local association can impose an automatic "T" for undergarments that are showing. Just remove the player from the game.

RecRef Fri Nov 01, 2002 11:05am

Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Quote:

Originally posted by rgaudreau
Is there an actual rule reference for this?
Are you serious?

If you are,see NFHS R3-4-15.

:( Problem is that R3-4-15 leaves much to be desired. In stating that a team jersey “designed” to be worn inside the pants/skirt...
Now what does designed to be worn mean? A jersey with tails, I would say it must be in. What about one with a rounded bottom like a T-shirt Or a pullover type shirt?

I wish the rule would just say, “All shirts must be worn inside...

Mark Dexter Fri Nov 01, 2002 02:46pm

Re: Re: Re: Shirts in and shorts above the hips
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Mark, your posting beat me to it. But I don't think that any local association can impose an automatic "T" for undergarments that are showing. Just remove the player from the game.

I don't agree that they should, but an association could certainly interpret the unsportsmanlike conduct definition to include showed undergarments.

rainmaker Sat Nov 02, 2002 11:51am

Quote:

Originally posted by RecRef
Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Quote:

Originally posted by rgaudreau
Is there an actual rule reference for this?
Are you serious?

If you are,see NFHS R3-4-15.

:( Problem is that R3-4-15 leaves much to be desired. In stating that a team jersey “designed” to be worn inside the pants/skirt...
Now what does designed to be worn mean? A jersey with tails, I would say it must be in. What about one with a rounded bottom like a T-shirt Or a pullover type shirt?

I wish the rule would just say, “All shirts must be worn inside...

There are women's (or girls) uniforms that are shorter, and have a band around the bottom, rather than just a hem. These are "designed to be worn out", and are legal as such. I haven't seen a lot of them, but they are out there.

When a kid askes why the tucked-in rule, I tell about a play I saw in a Blazer game (true story!). The dribbler, who was moving quickly across the top of the key, had his shirt all the way out, the defender was between the ball and the basket and moving parallel to the dribbler, waving his arms. At one point the defender's finger got caught, probably inadvertently, in the hem of the dribbler's shirt. The dribbler was held back, tripped over his own feet, lost the ball and nearly fell. The ref never even flinched. Other team got the ball, and break-fasted, I mean fast-breaked, for an easy lay-up. The ref explained to the coach (I'm assuming) and amazingly shirts stayed tucked in for the rest of that game! Kids listen to this and I never have a problem.


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