Dealing with lower level coaches?
 

I've been officiating for 8 yrs now, still a rookie in my Assoc.
Why is it the lower level Coaches Freshman & JV scream and yell at the officials for calls or no calls. I sometimes stick around for the varsity game and the Coaches for the most part just calmly ask questions about calls. I feel the lower level coaches just want to win the game as most do, but keep there job to make that extra money coaching? Do you lower level officials see this as well? Hope everyone's season is going well. GFS-1

In my opinion it is a combination of (1) coaches who are inexperienced and/or don't know the rules all that well and (2) the coaches figure most JV officials are rookies and so they question the calls they make or don't make.

I call some JV games (actually enjoy them) and the funny thing is I have been calling ball longer than a lot of the coaches have been around. I also have no problem informing them that I am not going to have them question every call or they will be watching the game while seated on the bench

Lower level coaches tend be younger and less mature and do not know how to talk to officials in the appropriate way. Ironically, they also may think less of the officials who work their games because those officials tend to be less experienced.

Officials working lower level games, even those who are less experienced, need to let the coaches know that their behavior will not be tolerated. If talking doesnt work then stick them with a few Ts and they will get the picture or have to explain to their varsity coach why they got tossed from a game and someone else from the varsity staff has to take time away from preparation to coach one of the lower level teams.

I agree with this. In addition, at least around here, we have quite a few inexperienced officials working sub-varsity. A lot of us are still learning how to handle coaches.

IMO most coaches at those levels are less experienced as are the officials. Coaches only do what we allow them to do & some officials at the lower levels dont know how to take care of biznizz!

My $0.02:

There are several major factors in play... in no particular order:

Officials inexperience in dealing with coaches, inexperienced officials (myself included) probably don't have the coach-handling skills of the seasoned vets.

Coaches inexperience and lack of detailed rules knowledge.

Additionally, at least around here, there's usually only one coach for these lower-level games, and I think officials are probably reluctant to toss a coach if there's no AC available to take over the game. (I know I've felt this way once or twice... I don't want to punish the kids for the sins of their coach. And yes, I know this shouldn't really be a factor in my decision-making process). On the other hand, this may also be a contributing factor in varsity coaches being more subdued... they know they can get tossed more easily because they have ACs there to take over.

Because we let them...

+1

Yep, there's a 9 page thread right now partly because of this very issue.

+10

In our area coaches at the lower level get away with murder because we don't police them. We also have officials not enforce certain rules because it is a "lower level" games.

You are not alone, trust me on this one.
 

I think it was said the best earlier. The coaches at that level are still learning too. They just do not get what to do just like us as officials have to learn how to deal with them when we move up the latter. Usually these coaches figure it out a little more if they get to the varsity levels themselves because the veterans are not going to put up with their antics when they are at that level. This is why I tend to notice when the veteran official come down to work these games, their behavior is not accepted and Ts are more likely given. Younger official tend to not know to defuse many situations and you get powder kegs. And it must be noted that these games are often more difficult to officiate because the players are not as good or experienced and the coaches do not know how to coach through diversity as well and think yelling at the officials is the way to get what they want. And the fans are not as knowledgeable about the game either, so you hear more ignorant comments and the overall tone of the experience is different. This is just the way it is and try to watch veterans to learn some techniques and body language that works for you and maybe you will get a handle on some of these coaches better. But do not feel bad, even veterans I know cannot stand these coaches as was the case of a guy that I am very good friends with dealt with the other night and is a State Final official.

Peace

Besides what has already been mentioned, the other factor is that the newer and/or less experienced coaches at the Middle School, Fr, and JV levels have what they see on TV as their role models...they probably think that being like Bobby Knight is how a coach is supposed to act!

Some of the newer ones haven't seen coach Knight coach. My guess is they're modeling themselves after that one guy from Duke.

I doubt there are too many people that do not know or have not seen Coach Knight at some point of their life if they are old enough to coach right now. It is not like it has been 10 years since his last game.

Peace

Him too......(but wasn't the Duke guy a Knight protoge`?)

Explains a lot, don't it?

Not when you see the antics of many coaches. Coach Knight was just successful, there are other coaches that are a lot worse and not as public. Again Coach K often gets a pass because he is engaging in interviews with the media. Coach Knight just did not give a rats behind if the media liked him or not.

Peace

This is true. And I found it to be among his more endearing qualities.

I also agree which is why I was always a fan.

That also being said, I know many D1 officials that said they loved working his games. And stated that he was usually more knowledgeable about rules than most coaches and he was fair to them as opposed to other coaches around the country.

Peace

It's true, it's true.....

You mean like the "no coaching box at lower level" rule?

Out of control coaches and out of control parents have the same thing in common...experience, or the lack thereof. I've found young parents of younger players to be, in general, far more boisterous than the older parents of older players. Same for coaches. Most get it figured out after they've gotten a few years under their belts...but not all of them.

You do realize Knight finished at the bottom of the Big 10 in T"s received every year? Coach K finishes near the bottom of the ACC?
But MAN were those Knight blow ups memorable.

I'm only guessing here, but how much of that has to do with fear?

College coaches at the D-I level in general get away with a lot. I think at lot more than at any other level. If they tried pulling what they did at the NBA or high school level, there would be more technicals handed out IMO.

Got it in one!

As the saying goes, what you permit, you promote.

I do not know about that. I think college coaches are more intelligent about what they complain about and often are stopped in their tracks by know knowledgeable officials. I have never had a college coach say the things to me that a high school coach says. And all the cursing I see high school coaches do and no one does anything I doubt that.

Also I not too long ago saw some tape of NBA officials interactions with NBA coaches and players, the language is much more direct from officials and do not allow a lot of the crap to go on that I see many high school and college officials get away.

Peace

Just for curiosity's sake, when I deal with college coaches I do tend to give them a little more rope as far as complaining. I somewhere picked up the philosophy that these guys are coaching as a job, to put food on their table, not an extra paycheck they are picking up like high school coaches. To me, the college and especially pro game is more about competition. High school athletics is an extension of the classroom where they learn skills to deal with situations that come up in life as an adult.

Any thoughts on this philosophy?

Oh, and my thoughts on technicals in the pro game... they found they were losing fans because of the unsporting attitudes of their players so they fixed it. That, to me, is the only reason they made the change. It's all about $ in the pros.

I agree with this statement 100%.

what would happen if there was only one coach, he gets tossed, and no one available to take over? is the game forfeited?

/thanks

Depends on the state. Some require a "trained school official". Some require a "school representative". Some allow a parent. Some don't allow anything (and might forfeit or suspend the game). Some allow the game to go on with no adult.

(okay -- I don't know that any allow any of the above -- they are just some possibilitiess).

So, check with your state.

I too have heard that philosophy. I don''t necessarily disagree with that. I agree with JRut in saying that the coaches at that level are more than likely more intelligent with issues they bring up with officials. Still, I see some of the antics coaches pull in some of these D-I games and have to wonder why T's aren't being handed out. I don't see this at the pro game where the pressure to win is just as, if not greater than the college game. That does bring me to a question...do coaches at that level have scratch powers like they do at the high school level? I'm assuming so, and this could play a role for a newish official in deciding whether to pull the trigger or not.

As far as the NBA issuing more technicals, their tweaks for their Respect of the Game philosophies more readily applies to players rather than coaches. The only clamp down I read/seen for coaches was the one with assistant coaches (more going the route that we do at high school...seen not heard). You're right in saying that the NBA has to take money into consideration...just as any professional sporting league has to.

R-E-S-P-E-C-T...or lack thereof. (now I have that song in my head);)

1) The lower level coach got away with it last week, why not try it again?

2) The lower level coach might have a "lower level" official...and the coach might actually be correct on a call or rules situation that when against him/her.

3) As mentioned before, the lower level coach hasn't figured it out yet... how to actually communicate with the officials in a mature manner.

I have a double header tonight...Frosh game in the upper gym, then the Varsity game in the Main gym later.
We don't do a lot of double headers...but, it's always fun to watch the lower level coaches at the start of the game.

Not to brag...but, they figure it out pretty quick as to how they will be acting that night.;)