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-   -   Swinging of Elbows Foul (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/61112-swinging-elbows-foul.html)

VaTerp Mon Jan 24, 2011 11:45pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobbyinTN (Post 721295)
In that case it is an intentional as a minimum and could easily be a flagrant. It sounds like there was intent to injure and thus is fragrant and a T

It was easily intentional but did not rise to the level of flagrant IMO. I'm very comfortable that I made the correct call even though I did not administer it 100% correctly.

As for the OP, after reading some of your posts it seems that you were in the mindset of "swinging elbow violation" and not foul. Obviously, the excessive swinging of the elbow without contact would have been a violation and no foul.

With contact, it is your judgment as to whether it is a common, intentional, or flagrant foul. If you do not deem it to rise to the level of intentional or flagrant, then it is a common foul and since the player had the ball it is a PC foul and no free throws are awarded. As noted, that is a correctable error.

Like I said before, we live and learn. I certainly learned something and got some clarification from this thread. Thanks for posting this.

jdw3018 Mon Jan 24, 2011 11:50pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by McMac (Post 721294)
I reported it as swinging of the elbows, not PC.

One more note - there is no foul for "swinging the elbows," nor a mechanic for reporting such in NFHS.

You may very well know this, but I just wanted to note it as there is no specific rule for fouling with an elbow vs any other body part.

NEohioref Tue Jan 25, 2011 01:33am

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdw3018 (Post 721312)
One more note - there is no foul for "swinging the elbows," nor a mechanic for reporting such in NFHS.

You may very well know this, but I just wanted to note it as there is no specific rule for fouling with an elbow vs any other body part.

i agree its a violation unless you think its intentional or flagrant

jdw3018 Tue Jan 25, 2011 11:07am

Quote:

Originally Posted by NEohioref (Post 721322)
i agree its a violation unless you think its intentional or flagrant

That's not what I'm saying - You are right that there is a swinging the elbows violation. This is for if there is no contact.

If a player is swinging his elbows and makes contact, then you almost certainly have a common, intentional, or flagrant foul. But there is not a specific category of foul for swinging the elbows.

PG_Ref Tue Jan 25, 2011 12:01pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdw3018 (Post 721312)
One more note - there is no foul for "swinging the elbows," nor a mechanic for reporting such in NFHS.

There is a mechanic for "excessively swinging of elbows" violation ... see mechanic #27 in the NFHS manual and page 200 of the IAABO manual.

jdw3018 Tue Jan 25, 2011 12:10pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by PG_Ref (Post 721471)
There is a mechanic for "excessively swinging of elbows" violation ... see mechanic #27 in the NFHS manual and page 200 of the IAABO manual.

Yes - but not for fouling with the elbow. That's my point. I'm obviously not being very clear.

PG_Ref Tue Jan 25, 2011 12:14pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdw3018 (Post 721477)
Yes - but not for fouling with the elbow. That's my point. I'm obviously not being very clear.

Understood.


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