Good luck or not?
 

I'm bored at school watching the one kid in ISS, so my question. At the end of captain's meeting, do you say good luck or have fun? Or nothing at all? I do avoid being That Guy, speaking captains, we're call the hand checking, we'll talk you out of the lane, etc, etc, etc....(with hand waving in air and shaved head a la Yul).

After I ask if they have questions (they never do), I tell them "Have fun. be good sports, good luck."

I usually say "have fun."

When the kids run by during intros to fist bump us (I hate that, btw), I say "play hard."

I try to avoid saying "good luck" because someone, somewhere is going to mistakenly interpret that as me "rooting" for one team over the other (although if it was in the captain's meeting to both teams, it's less likely)

"Don't forget to complete the customer service survey you'll be getting in the mail in two to three weeks."

It's especially awkward when only one team does it.

You don't take one last opportunity to remind them not to hand check? :D

Wisconsin prohibits it, as well as shaking opposing team (player/coach) hands. Maybe 3 things WI gets right. :)

I do that right before I toss the ball, if I'm the R.

If I'm the U, then I add it right before the survey reminder, after the R asks if I have anything to add.

;)

That Guy
 

"Okay, tonight we're going to play the blue line all the way around (I mention that because for the boys' game following the end walls and the fourth row of the bleachers will be out of bounds). Play defense with your feet. Which one of you is the speaking captain? Do any of your players have asthma? Do any of your players were contacts? I live just down the road, but don't worry, I'll be neutral tonight. And girls, don't hang on the rim after you dunk."

"Question anything you like, as long as you're civil about it. Let's have some fun."

i remind them that is their game and we are there to let them run... lets go.

After the first one does it go over and tell the coach to have them stop...you are in charge.

Really Bob? If you tell both teams good luck and have fun how is that mistankenly interpreted as rooting by anyone that has one brain cell?

Question anything you like...not saying that!

I tell them to remember that it is a game so enjoy the opportunity to have fun and that win or lose the sun will come up tomorrow

Unfortunately I hear this a lot when I'm the U.

Do you break into song?

Nah, he can't hit the high C.

After I ask if there are any questions (usually never are) I simply say "OK, let's have a good clean game tonight" and leave it at that.

I avoid wishing any of them good luck or anything.

I have added to captain's meeting, in addition to the coach's meeting, that I do not want to hear complaining, just questions about any about calls or non-calls. This seems to keep the useless chatter away or down. :) Oh and be nice a la Roadhouse. Heard that from camp in AZ. Works great.

Oldie But Goodie ...
 

I had forgotten about that one.

Someone should come with a list of things not to say in a pregame captains/coaches meeting. Freddy's given us a good starting point.

And, by the way coach, you're still single, right?

What not to say:
We are gonna call (fill in blank)
Who are my speaking captains? And those that ask this, why? I asked That Guy and he said......well, he didn't have a reason. In the meeting, after asking who are my speaking captains, That Guy said, anyone can talk to us. So why the distinction of a speaking captain?
And anything else that drags the meeting past 1 min.

"We're gonna work hard for you tonight!" :rolleyes:

Things Not To Say...
 

Don't mean to hijack this post, but it's on the same general topic; and besides, Billy Mac opened the door:

One thing not to say during the brief pre-game meet/greet with the coach: "So, coach, are there any questions you have about the rules?"

One thing good to say . . . "Coach, after a timeout or intermission, bring 'em out at the first horn; we'd like to make the ball live at the second horn."
(Funny thing, when I say that prior to a game, the players seem much easier to exit their huddles. When I don't say it, we spend the whole game like a dentist yanking out teeth extracting them from their bench areas. Saying "First horn coach..." twelve times each timeout gets old real fast.

Use the assistant coaches to help get em out OR try sitting the ball on the ground at the throwin spot. You won't have anymore trouble during the game!!

Speaking Captain
 

Do any of you sense that the "captain" role has become merely ceremonial for most teams nowadays? The book asks us to identify the captain (singular). Maybe the whole "speaking captain" thingie evolved from guys not wanting to demean the other two or three or four or five, whatever, by asking, "OK, which one of you two or three or four or five is the real captain?"
Shucks, there's no prohibition for the whole team to answer the call if they wanted to. And frankly, I wouldn't mind having everyone from both teams come out and hear my dog and pony show on sportsmanship. :D
Still, identifying the captain is a required responsibility of ours.
Some find the whole "speaking captain" thing misleading anyway, since most will certainly allow any player to speak to them in a polite and respectful manner, right?

I like it most when my partner introduces me as the non-speaking official. That way I don't feel compelled to respond to anything the coach says to me. :D

Yep!
 

Yes, the RTP proceedure. And you are correct. Cf. personal tagline below. It works.

Bet yer bottom dollar!

I ask who the speaking captains are. The meeting never lasts over 30 seconds.

The list would be too long.

I get the number of a spokesperson from each team. I circle the numbers in the book. I may need to go to the captains at some point to talk someone out of a bad situation. Would be nice to remember who they are, but my brain only has so much capacity.

I think many here worry waaaaaaayyyyyyy tooooooo much about what others think of them. We are human beings first. If someone wants to make an issue out of that kind of interaction, this is their paranoid problem.

And for shaking kids hands, why not shake their hand? They are showing sportsmanship like we claim they are supposed to do. We are not adversaries; we are playing a role in a game. What is the big deal? And when kids have seen you over and over and over again, I am not going to treat them like I do not know them. In my case I might see the same kid in a college game and they will remember me. I care about these kids as people, not just some player that I will never see again. I take my job as an official very seriously, but I am a human first and foremost before everything.

Peace

+1

I dont see why so many guys hate doing it so much!
I've seen it avoided 3 different ways:

1. Stay opposite until intros are complete (theres a chance they will run 50 feet to give you some love anyway).

2. Aftet the Anthem plays Umpires run to the block & R goes opposite (the seperation may deter them from showing you some love).

3. Just go behind the table & begin stretching.

IMO none of the above promote good sportsmanship :(

I don't see anything particularly compelling either way with this. I don't seek it out, but I don't balk at it either. It's the same as the kids shaking my hand after the game.

I am not advocating going out of your way to shake hands. I am just wondering what is the big deal?

Peace

I wasn't responding to your post. :D

That is the funniest thing you have said in some time. ;)

Peace

The Bay State ???
 

Do you officiate in Massachusetts?

And No, My Partner Wasn't Howie Mandel ...
 

A few years ago, during a particularly bad influenza season, after all the hand shaking before the game, my partner took a bottle of hand sanitizer out of his jacket pocket and rubbed it all over his hands. Really.

Math Isn't My Best Subject ...
 

If they're wearing warmups, do you ask them for their numbers? And, if so, do they pull up their warmups to show you their numbers? Can't they remember their own numbers?

Handshakes Are Oh So Twentieth Century ...
 

Over the past few years we have become a mostly "fist bumping" state.

We do that and I want to see them. This is for my information, not their benefit. Do we ask players to tell us what their number is when they foul if we cannot clearly see them? No, so I want to see their number. And I mark the speaking captain in the book.

Peace

Did he do it each time after handling the ball as well? :rolleyes:

That depends on the team. FWIW, one official in my area said he had a coach this year that insisted on conducting the meeting without a captain. It's highly unusual, but I don't know any penalty for not bringing a captain to the meeting.

During those meetings, I don't bother asking for speaking captains, because any player (i.e. those on the floor) can speak to you during the game, anyway. If the game goes into overtime, I'll worry about it then.

imo +12

Agree completely. I think it is a sign of respect for a player to offer a hand shake or fist bump. I'm not going to pull the ol' Smitty Little League ump move and get in line behind the players to shakes hands but I'm not going to run away from it either.

Agreed! I think that if you will not shake/bump the hand offered you appear to be aloof, disrespectful and unapproachable. If a hand is not offered by one team - fine - no problem but I am always going to shake/bump when it is offered. It is a sign of the kind of young men and women we would like them to become IMHO. I believe it shows a sign of their maturity as well.

Quite frankly, I only see it here when I work junior college games. The WIAA has a strict protocol for pregame introductions and teams are instructed not to seek out the other players or coaches or the officials for handshakes/fist bumps/etc. They are introduced and come onto the court right in front of their benches.

newer guy here.....why would this make a bigger difference for overtime?

/thanks!

I don't get it much with WI schools either. Mostly with my JUCO schedule and when I am in MI. When the WI schools play a MI school is when I usually get the MI captains shaking hands and the WI captains that won't

I don't need or want the fist bump/hand shake during player introductions...I'll interact with the players DURING THE GAME.

Some players...and I do mean SOME...take this oportunity to smash their fist against yours. I turn my fist, so that they hit the "meaty" part of my hand instead of the knuckles...but, it still pi$$es me off when they try the hard fist bump. (call me sensitive, but I wish we would ELIMINATE this pre-game formality...such as some of the college ranks have done)

"AMEN" Rookie Dude. We should not be part of the pre-game "show" that takes way too long. They run all over the gym shaking hands with coaches, players and some, the student section. The fans are not here to see us.

In the big picture, asking for a speaking captain makes no difference to me. If my R wants to know then so be it, however, I do not understand why the need to ask. Even so far as marking the speaking captain in the book; I don't understand.

Shaking hands I avoid, the fist bump is what I prefer to avoid contracting a cold or flu, although each time I handle the ball, I am part of the transfer of germs. So, I am back to square one. Well, the bump is more piece of mind then than actually pure germ warfare. :o

Who *cares* about the fans?

Sigh, another ref who wishes we could wear an invisibility cloak. We're not the center of attention, but we *are* part of the game. Why are so many people ashamed of that?

I like notifying the captains before the jump. It's a relic that's still in the NFHS manual.

Also, if I have a real issue (if the game gets chippy), I wouldn't hesitate to talk to a captain. In football, I have the numbers written on my game card. I don't have such a device in basketball.

I know it may not be needed to know who the captains are for 10 years, but the one day when I'd like to use the captains to help settle a player or a game, it's nice to have that information available. It's simply a tool in a big toolbox.

Chippy games can explode quickly if not handled. To be honest, I ask any teammate to chill someone out or calm them down. I really don't know if they are a captain or not, just a teammate. If I need captains during a dead ball for some reason, a simple cattle call for captains and they come a running. Maybe I need to increase my game recollection to know who my captains are during the game to quickly call them and settle a game or player. I just don't see the use in knowing who my speaking captains. It implies that the other captains are not speaking and that they can be the only ones to speak on the team's behalf.

I understand in football that officials need specific answers from a team spokesperson on the field during play. In basketball, there are few instances that I need input from a captain to the point that I don't need to know who is the speaking captain. All in all, a moot point. I was on a fishing trip to get insight on the need to ask for dem speaking captains.

I disagree strongly.

Dissuading sportsmanship is not the way to go. If the players want to take a few extra seconds and shake/bump our hands, enjoy the respect. I'll even notify the coach of a "best handshake award" (firm, eye contact).

When the teams stress respect for us, it can only make thing better. To even suggest that you don't want handshakes only makes us more distant and unapproachable.

I agree! In addition to our attire upon arriving at the school & taking the floor in a professional manner, the fist bump only helps set the the tone prior to the toss.

Yeah, I get tired of that statement, too. We know the fans aren't here to see us, but they aren't there to see the coaches either (at the high school level). They aren't there to see the cheer leaders, either. They aren't there to see the table personnel, either.

I know in this context it's relatively innocuous, but the statement can lead to officials shrinking at the end of a close game. It seems to me it would take more noticeable effor to avoid the handshakes/fist bumps than to just stand there and accept them.

I have seen this at the varsity and college levels, where teams are from other states as well. Again I do not go out of my way to shake their hand. I stand near the scorer's table and if they come by we usually fist bump as that is what the kids do anyway. It is also not uncommon that there are players that do not come by at all. Usually the players come by to shake the coach's hands and we are on their route to or from and that is when they do it. And this has been the case more and more for the last 3 years or so (probably more but mostly noticeable then). It would be more noticeable if I refused to shake/fist bump a kid now than it would have been 10 years ago. It would not even make much difference to me if they choose not to come by and do that. I just do not see the big deal when they do.

Peace

You know what they say about a stopped clock....

It finds a nut once in a while?

You can't make him drink?

I thought it was "You cannot beat it with a dead horse?"

Peace

Wouldn't it be a flagrant technical foul on each player who strikes the referee with their fist? ;)

Shooting to be "that guy" now? :D

Who said anything about "dissuading sportsmanship"?

Respect? The coach probably MAKES them do the hand bump/shake...so they don't SEEM disrespectful, since almost every team does it now.


Brother...:rolleyes: Then there must be a lot of "distant and unapproachable" conferences, associations, and officials who would prefer this formality go away. Like I said...I'll interact with the players DURING THE GAME.

Hey, if you think you need a fist bump with the kids to show your "sportsmanship"...fine...but, to question ones lack of respect or approachability because they would prefer not to, is silly...IMHO.

I agree, while I have no issue with the handshakes/fistbumps per se, I'm not under any illusions that they are some sort of altruistic display of sportsmanship either.

It's like my 5 y/o son saying please; he does it because he's told to (most of the time).

And to even suggest that one person suggesting he doesn't care for the pleasantries means anything with regard to approachability is the very definition of "non sequitur." It's also hyperbole.

Well, the last game I had, the visiting team would have needed us to do that with the home team so that they would have had a chance to make it a close game....final 79-29....lots of subs played for the winning team in the 2nd half and they still stretched the lead out.

...yeah, what Snaq's said...only a lot more articulate and with bigger words!;)

Hey Snaq's...have you ever heard an official comment on what is the WORST 15 minutes of basketball?

You can probably guess...but, I agreed.

LOL, I'm guessing the last 15:00 before tipoff. :D

The last 30 seconds of a 7th Grade C game?

...you are wise beyond your years.:)

...now that's funny!:D

I Need An Extra Large ...
 

Does Honig's carry those?

Nope, Hogwarts Sports Supply.

It gathers no moss?

We have to do 20 minutes here in WI. Last night, the tallest player (girl's game) on the floor was 5'10".

I walked up to my partner and said, "You know, for every 3 games we work, that's 1 hour of our lives we'll never get back."

Fortunately for us both teams went in, so we did too for a few minutes until the teams came back out. Gave us a chance to discard the jackets and for me to get a bit more stretching in away from the eyes of the parents and fans.

My partner and I talk about that all the time how much is wasted watching...nothing. When we first started doing JV the 5 minutes between the end of our game and the start of the varsity was valuable. We got to pick the varsity guy's brains on things that happened during our game etc. We also got to know them a little bit personally as well which goes along way.

LOL...that's good...mind if I borrow that?;)

On a side note: My partners and I were ready to go into the gym last night for a BV game... I had read, on this forum, where some officials tweet their whistles before entering the gym. I told my two partners about it...one said yeah go for it...the other said no, (with a red face). Well, I did it...Man, the whole gym got quiet and watched us as we walked in. It was kinda weird...I don't know if I'll do it again.

Actions speak louder than words. If you prefer not to receive a handshake from a player, you're sending a message that sportsmanship isn't important to you. Interpersonal relations go a long way on the floor.

And why do coaches make the players do it? Because coaches are role models -- as are we -- and it's the right thing to teach the kids.

Never said we "need" it; that's up to the players and coaches. I'm saying it's bad to discourage it. If a player wants to pay us some respect, accept it with a smile. If you prefer to be jaded, that could come back to haunt you later.

...suggesting a lack of interpersonal relations, the RIGHT thing to do, BAD to discourage it, jaded, it can haunt you...

I'm with Snaqs, once again...HPERBOLE at it's finest.:rolleyes:

Good grief. Don't mistake inference for implication.

It's only hyperbole when you don't mean what you say. I do.

And Snaqs, sometimes, we have to give a damn what people infer. Perhaps not in rule enforcement, but in the grand scheme of things, simply being nice and classy makes things smoother between us and the rest of the basketball world.

It's hyperbole because you're making it say more than it does. You're reading way too much into his statements. Maybe "hysteria" would be a better word than hyperbole.

My point was, just because you infer something from what he said doesn't mean that's what he implied. It also doesn't mean others will infer it.

I tend to agree with Rut on this; people are making way too much of it. But that goes both ways. The state of player-official relations isn't going to change either way.

Call it what it is, a meaningless formality.

Whether we like it or not people will draw conclusions on what we do or do not do. Just like people will assume something if we shake the hand of a person that will be in the stands during the game and that person is wearing colors from one of the school. Or there are those that will draw conclusions if we put our arms around a player. Of course it is not hyperbole to say that everything will be affected by this one act, but someone will draw some conclusion one way or another. I just think it looks silly to deny a kid or coach a handshake when they come to you. I just think this is something we can avoid looking bad and aloof or unapproachable if you deny a kid that is shaking opponent’s hands and then come by you.

Peace

If people in my association put half as much effort into their rule book as you guys do in comming up with thoughts on a crazy hand shake/fist bump they would be pro by now. :p Not a big deal to me. that is a decision for the kids to make. As for my captains meeting, "Hi, my name is Toma, I'll be hear all night. Don't forget to tip your waitress and try the veal":D

Hypocrisy is saying something you don't believe or act upon.

Hyperbole is making more of something than it is.

Saying that referees who dislike shaking hands with players are demonstrating poor sportsmanship is an exaggeration and therefore hyperbole.

Personally, I think it gives the impression of currying favor with the officials, not of sportsmanship.

Not everyone is going to take it the same way. (Which is also why you can't worry too much about how it appears to people because it will appear exactly opposite to two different people more times than not.)

That's the crux of our disagreement.

The fact is, like it or not, much of what we do has a ripple effect, intended or not. If we come off as unsportsmanlike, it just plain doesn't look good.

JRut nails it. People will draw conclusions, sometimes just to suit them. However, nearly everyone will infer that something is wrong if an official has an aversion to handshakes. That's not hyperbole, nor hysteria (talk about overstatements). That's reality, and it's far from meaningless.

I don't think anyone has suggested not shaking hands (or fist bumping) if the players come over. It would, however, be better if they didn't come over.

Fixed it for you.
My overstatement was inentional (thus making it hyperbole); but I admit it was an overstatement. You're drawing way too much.

I don't think even Rookie Dude would walk away from a player trying to shake hands or fist bump. Here's your post to which I took exception:

Fair enough. That's what we do around here.
Generic and unobjectionable opinion.
I really hope you're kidding here, so I'll refrain from saying it's stupid. If you're not, and you get laughs with it, well, there's not much more for me to say.

Here I disagree. Telling their kids to shake our hands only reinforces a pleasantry; that's it. The best way a coach can stress respect for the officials is to display it during the game; not insist on a meaningless formality before the game.

This is hyperbole (it's what I was referring to before); unless you really think RD is going to damage player/official relations by his anonymous statements on an officiating board. In that case, I can't help you.

...in something YOU say, not what someone else says.

For example, if I said, "that quarter took forever," that would be an example of hyperbole, because I said it. You can't apply it to what someone else says. ("Misrepresentation" could apply.) I meant what I said, therefore no hyperbole.

Are you saying we should be generally cynical and suspect of any player/coach that chooses to be nice? While some people indeed need an individual read on their level of trust, overall, I think we're far better off accepting handshakes/fist bumps as an act of respect, than to waste time wondering what their true motivation is (if any).

Someone once said here that part of our roles is that of a salesman. Salesmen need good interpersonal skills to thrive. They can help you get out of the inevitable damaging situations that will arise.

Just because you mean it doesn't mean it's not hyperbole.

It doesn't make me think they are currying favor. I think it causes the fans to think they are currying favor. It makes me think they are wasting time on a mostly meaningless gesture.

Wow, where to start?

First of all, you never fix someone's quote. That's simply bad form. You leave it alone, with the exception of "[sic]" for misspellings or grammatical errors, and put your thoughts after it.

And more importantly, much of what we do indeed DOES have a ripple effect. That's no opinion. That's a fact, and I'm stunned you can't see that.

I won't disagree with the latter sentence, but think about the former. What do you think players learn from this mandated pleasantry? RESPECT, sir! And it carries over into the game.

If a player shakes your hand, and you're keeping an attitude of "you're only doing this, kid, because your coach told you to," then you're often dismissing the very respect the coach is trying to teach. If you have knowledge that a coach/player is being disingenuous, then fine, but until then, lighten up a little and enjoy the respect we sometimes claim others lack for us.

Not at all. I'm far more concerned about our actions and attitudes on the floor. That's where it counts.

Check your private messages

lw

Ever since I had one captain who had removed his mouthguard to shake hands, I have not ever had a problem with the fist bump.

Actually, that falls under the very definition of hyperbole. If you find comments to be disagreeable, that's something else entirely.

Okay, I see your point with the players intent vs. the fans' inference, but I know coaches that insist on this respectful act, and trust me, it isn't meaningless. The long-term effects of a handshake may not always be apparent, but they exist, and go a long way toward collective respect.

Sounds like you were a military volunteer whereby everyone else took a step backwards.