Designated starters
 

GV last night. I went over to the table with about 11 minutes left. (Captains at 12 minutes here and to the table right afterwards. May have been 11:15 or so on the clock when I walked over.) Noticed the visiting scorer was copying the official book. No biggy, I have other things to do.

So I chatted with the timer (the BV coach and a fine baseball umpire), took a bunch of air out of the basketball (it bounced up to my neck when I dropped it), and checked the possession arrows, etc. I also found out that a good sportsmanship report I sent after a previous game was read and appreciated by all -- I didn't even know it had been published.

With about 7 minutes on the clock, I finally got the official book and immediately noticed that the starters weren't marked. Actually, there were numbers next to the players and I thought that the ones marked "1" were the starters, so I asked the timer (as a coach, I figured he'd set me straight). He immediately called over the GV coach and brusquely told him that he needed to designate his starters. Whoops. The coach went down the list and picked five players as if he really didn't know who he was starting. Maybe he was just looking for the names in the book.

In the meantime, I signed the other book (the visiting scorer was nowhere to be found) and I had the timer enter the scorers in that book as well. I passed on assessing the technical foul, mainly because I would've had that fixed at 11 minutes had the book not been in the hands of the visiting scorer.

So, question for the group: Would it be better at 11 minutes to say to the visiting scorer -- "I need the official book for a minute and I'll give it right back to you" or simply do what I did? This little voice inside my head says I should've taken the book at 11 minutes just in case the visiting coach/scorer had made a big deal about this. As it was, we had no problems and the game was as you would expect between 4-7 and 0-10 teams (a 33-28 final that was 22-17 after 3 quarters).

This is why I like to check the book at 14 and then do the captain's meeting at 12, although most in this area check the book when you do.

Yes, I'd take the book from the visiting scorer and check it then as he has at least 10 minutes to finish after you are done.

If we went over at 14 minutes, the book wouldn't be done. Here we do captain meeting at 12 and go to the table right after. It's a well known protocol in the state. Even then, we frequently run into timers/scorers that are not at the table.

If the official book is ready and the visitor is copying the info, I will ask them to let me borrow it for a minute while I do my thing. Sometimes they give me the stink eye, but that's not really my problem. There will be plenty of time for them to finish copying the info when I bring it back.

???:confused:

That's about right, isn't it? The ball is supposed to bounce up to between 49 and 54 inches. That's neck-high for you, isn't it?



<font size = -4>Just couldn't help myself :D </font>

Bad Woddy! Bad, bad Woddy!

Same here.

I wouldn't advise this in general, but in this case listen to the little voice. Who gets in trouble if they're still working on the book at 8:00, you or the scorer?

Well, to be honest, neither (in this case). I knew in that environment I could do pretty much whatever I wanted and nobody was going to say anything. I am kinda fond of following the rules, though.

That's exactly why I prep my Varsity Girls scorebook during the JV boys game.
All R has to do is count up players and match to teams and sign the book.Speaking of the practice of having R sign the book below the last listed player so that no more can be added-how many areas use this practice?

The practice here is to right the number of names in the book in the space below the last name and to draw a line through the remain spaces.

Here its draw a line through the remaining spaces and R initials both sides!

Round here we have the coaches sign the book under their roster.

I've taken to doing the same.

As we rarely have a single game at a site, I think the book has been ready at the 10 minute mark exactly one time this year. It's not something I can worry about.

I go over to the table at around 12:30 and all I care about is the information submitted. The stuff in the book is not something I worry about until the game starts. But if the coach has somewhere their starters and all their team members, the book does not need to be ready until we start.

Peace

Same deal for us. We go JV followed by varsity. Last night, though, it was clear that the coach forgot. He picked 5 players from the lineup and sounded like he was thinking about it.

This is protocol here.

Ok, maybe this is a silly question, but why do you have them sign it? And why under the roster?

While I assume it is to prevent any questions in case there is a discrepancy, I'm not sure it really prevents anything. What if there is a problem, and the coach says, "Yea, I signed it, but I didn't look real closely at it because I had to get back to my players. Here's the list I gave the scorekeeper, and it shows everything correctly." Now what do you do? Is there any rule or case that states the signature overrides the fact that the correct roster was submitted initially?

Last night, for example, the home scorekeepper had both coaches sign the book (at the top, btw), and both teams had the wrong starters listed in the book. We verified the book copied them correctly from the sheets handed to the scorekeepers, and went with the starters showing in the book. Both coaches had the players they had wanted to start waiting at the table during the jump, and they came in after the first dead ball. In this case both coach's signatures meant nothing.

As for signing the book under the names, what if the coach uses the last line in the book, and forgot to add Little Johnny who is on the JV squad, and there is no more room on the page? (Trivial, I know.) But I would guess there may be a couple of scorekeepers on this site who might complain about taking up useful space in the book with a signature that isn't required anywhere by rule or mechanic.

While having coaches look at and sign the book may occasionally prevent a possible error, there is obviously no guarantee it will. It just seems like wasted time and energy to do something that isn't even required by rule. Why not simply verify that each each coach submitted their correct roster? Whay worry about taking the coaches away from their teams, and taking the book away from the table, etc.?

I'm not a big fan of it at all, but it's the protocol here. The logic seems to be "they get their chance to change anything, so if anything is wrong in the book after that they can't say they didn't have the chance." Of course it doesn't have any sort of actual weight, as you noted, but that's the thinking.

I'd just as soon get on with it and do away with as much of this administrative stuff as possible. However, our state office is now asking us to have coaches present medical letters to allow sleeves or other medically necessary garments that otherwise aren't legal. Their word is no longer good enough.

Sigh.

I totally agree with you. I think it's silly, too. I do it because everyone else does it. If there is a problem with any numbers during the game, I will check the list supplied to the scorekeeper first. The signature means nothing to me. It's just the local custom.

M & M Guy-I couldn't agree with you more.If the Fed wanted coaches to sign that their rosters were recorded correctly they would've instructed the score book companies to create a space in their book to do so.Same for officials using the bottom.The only one who should assume responsibility for the book is the scorekeeper-If the Fed makes any change I believe that the scorekeeper should initial on both sides (next to the school names) and write the active # of players for each side next to their initials.

I believe that the coaches signatures mean that their roster is recorded correctly in the book for that game-as such any player not listed would be subject to an administrative technical foul.It also prevents scorekeepers from just adding the missing player in without the tech being assessed.