butt ball
 

A player jumps and tries to make behind the back pass off the dribble, and ends up planting the ball squarely on his butt. As he lands, he drops the ball and then recovers it.

Is this a violation?

I called travel because the ball never left his hand and his pivot foot returned to the floor.

But, he did momentarily loose control when he essentially blocked his own pass with his backside, so now I am wondering.

Travel. While he didn't have general purpose control of what he was trying to do, he did have "player control" since the ball never left his hand(s).

When did the dribble end, before or after he jumped?

I read it as a fumble, but I think a better description of the timing would help.

The attempted pass came off the dribble, just before he jumped. The return to the floor is what caused the ball to come loose.

Yabut.....

You can pass without ending a dribble.

We still don't know if/when the dribble ended. That info is needed to give a definitive answer.

Well then, the ground can't cause a fumble.

First Down!

I got nothing until I get more information.

Peace

I gotta admit, I don't know when the dribble ended.

Ball bounces up and contacts hand, he jumps. At that point he could still push the ball back down, but instead whips the ball around his back for the pass and pins it on his back. Then he lands, and the ball falls to the floor, he turns around and grabs it.

Given that I can't say when the dribble ended, JRut is probably right- I should have had nothing.

How does that saying go- Just 'cause it looks funny doesn't mean it is illegal.

Dribble might end here.

allowable

[quote and the ball falls to the floor,[/quote]

fumble

Allowed to recover fumble.

Thanks!

No, but it can cause an incomplete pass. :)

In football the ground can cause fumbles.

Yes it can. :D

It seems to me the dribble ended when it was pinned to the player's back.

even tho it looked bad I would say it is no more than a jump stop. Even if he jumps and lands on two feet its not a violation. Lands on both feet he just can't use a pivot. If he landed one foot then the other the first to hit the floor is the pivot. It sounds like an ugly play that the fans would scream about if you didn't call it but it wasn't anything more than an ugly legal play. But then again had to see it to really know.

Assuming he gathered the ball in the air, the part in red is wrong.

The only time he can't use a pivot is if he has to land on both feet. If he's allowed to land one foot at a time, but instead lands on both feet, then either foot may be the pivot.

Wait what? I need to re read that rule. That makes a lot more sense, I could never figure out why you wouldn't be allowed but the way I read it you couldn't. That is also the way it is taught here???

Three sorts of jump stops.
1. Player gathers in the air and lands on two feet. Same as if he had gather with two feet on the floor. Either foot may be a pivot.

2. Player gathers in the air, lands on one foot, jumps and lands on both feet simultaneously. Neither foot may be a pivot, but either or both may be lifted as long as it/they don't come back down prior to shooting, passing, or asking for a timeout.

3. Player gathers, while moving, with one foot on the floor, jumps and lands on both feet. Same restrictions as #2.

Ok yeah that is the way I read it. I guess maybe I just missunderstood what you were saying.

I missed the gathering in the air part.

Well then, the part in blue below is wrong. :D That would be a travel.

OK? Let me make sure I'm not confused lol. In the OP I read that A1 was dribbling then leaped I'm assuming off of one foot and then landed then the ball came loose.

yeah, I think the consensus is he jumps, then gathers the ball, then lands and the ball comes loose. He can recover this fumble and establish a pivot foot based on how he recovers the ball.