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-   -   travel to end uconn villanova (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/60683-travel-end-uconn-villanova.html)

ronald Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:54am

travel to end uconn villanova
 
I saw replays on espn of the last shot by uconn's guard. I saw him gather the ball jump off the right foot come down on the right foot followed instantly by the left foot and alight again. Was that a travel or is that considered simultaneously landing?

Thanks, Ron

Adam Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:56am

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronald (Post 718151)
I saw replays on espn of the last shot by uconn's guard. I saw him gather the ball jump off the right foot come down on the right foot followed instantly by the left foot and alight again. Was that a travel or is that considered simultaneously landing?

Thanks, Ron

I haven't seen the play, so I can only give a generic comment; but sometimes on this play, close enough is good enough. What I mean is, if you have to watch the replay to know for sure the feet didn't come down simultaneously, it's probably not going to get called.

GoodwillRef Tue Jan 18, 2011 12:29pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronald (Post 718151)
I saw replays on espn of the last shot by uconn's guard. I saw him gather the ball jump off the right foot come down on the right foot followed instantly by the left foot and alight again. Was that a travel or is that considered simultaneously landing?

Thanks, Ron

He traveled because the defender pushed him with two hands...should have been a foul that caused the travel.

jeffpea Tue Jan 18, 2011 12:37pm

i would not call a travel there...an official would be "splitting hairs" if a travel was called there....close enough to a jump stop for me there...(feet "alighted nearly simultaneously").

Rufus Tue Jan 18, 2011 01:25pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef (Post 718241)
He traveled because the defender pushed him with two hands...should have been a foul that caused the travel.

+1 - I know it's the Big East, but come on.

Jurassic Referee Tue Jan 18, 2011 02:12pm

I think we have to have a poll on this re: whether it was a travel or a foul. That's the only way to be absolutely certain.

CallMeMrRef Tue Jan 18, 2011 03:03pm

Travel? How about the carry?!?!
 
Offensive player carried the ball and covered a lot of ground before he gathered it to score the winning bucket. No wonder the defender put two hands on him, he dusted him with palming the ball!

Why even have points of emphasis if they are not going to be followed!

APG Tue Jan 18, 2011 03:04pm

<object height="385" width="640">


<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/stnWE0nAeHc?fs=1&hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" height="385" width="640"></object>

The 2nd view shows the play the best. I have the player gathering and ending his dribble with his left foot on the floor. Then a step with the right and then left. By rule it would be a travel under NFHS and NCAA rules. This is a legal play under NBA rules.

After looking at the video again, I agree there should of been a foul called here and it was clearly before the travel.

APG Tue Jan 18, 2011 03:06pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by CallMeMrRef (Post 718342)
Offensive player carried the ball and covered a lot of ground before he gathered it to score the winning bucket. No wonder the defender put two hands on him, he dusted him with palming the ball!

Why even have points of emphasis if they are not going to be followed!

How much ground should not be a consideration when determining travel or not. These players are bigger and longer than ever before and thus able to cover a lot of ground. Rather, just pick up the pivot foot and go from there.

Adam Tue Jan 18, 2011 03:11pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by CallMeMrRef (Post 718342)
Offensive player carried the ball and covered a lot of ground before he gathered it to score the winning bucket. No wonder the defender put two hands on him, he dusted him with palming the ball!

Why even have points of emphasis if they are not going to be followed!

What video are you watching? The travel happened after the push. By rule, you've got a foul, and he looks to me to be trying to gather the ball (judgment call) for a shot. The travel after the foul makes the ball dead, so two shots for the shooter.

rockyroad Tue Jan 18, 2011 03:19pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by CallMeMrRef (Post 718342)
Offensive player carried the ball and covered a lot of ground before he gathered it to score the winning bucket. No wonder the defender put two hands on him, he dusted him with palming the ball!

Why even have points of emphasis if they are not going to be followed!

When did the ball come to rest with the palm facing upward???

BktBallRef Tue Jan 18, 2011 03:36pm

Yes, it's probably a foul.

Yes, it's traveling.

CallMeMrRef Tue Jan 18, 2011 03:40pm

The palm is in the mid court when he goes from the bottom of the center court logo to the top of the key while carrying the ball. It is more than a hesitation dribble and other replays last night showed it more vividly. This is before he engages with the defender, who stands up in reaction to the ball coming to rest.

The 15 second video that is within this thread picks up the offensive player after his dribble at the top of the key.

letemplay Tue Jan 18, 2011 03:43pm

Takin the bus
 
Looks like 4 steps to me; two small ones as he gathers, two (not simultaneous) and the shot. Also I'll agree with others there could be a push in there as he splits the defenders. Neither of these are perceptible without benefit of slow motion instant replay, so know what? Great call!

APG Tue Jan 18, 2011 03:49pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by letemplay (Post 718378)
Looks like 4 steps to me; two small ones as he gathers, two (not simultaneous) and the shot. Also I'll agree with others there could be a push in there as he splits the defenders. Neither of these are perceptible without benefit of slow motion instant replay, so know what? Great call!

I don't see how you have four steps. :confused: Not that it matters in how we officiate this play.

letemplay Tue Jan 18, 2011 03:55pm

OK three steps
 
Still, in real time, looks close enough to a jump stop to be legal.

Adam Tue Jan 18, 2011 04:02pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by letemplay (Post 718383)
Still, in real time, looks close enough to a jump stop to be legal.

I don't know, the first time I saw the video I could tell it was a travel, in real time. Close enough to go either way? Probably, but it's still an obvious travel to me.

letemplay Tue Jan 18, 2011 04:05pm

Ahh, the first time
 
you saw the video, not the first time the ref, or a ref, saw the PLAY.

Jurassic Referee Tue Jan 18, 2011 04:06pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BktBallRef (Post 718373)
Yes, it's probably a foul.

Yes, it's traveling.

No, it's probably not a foul.

No, it's not traveling.

Yes, we absolutely must have a poll if we want to have the definitive answer.


PS- heeheeheehee.........

Adam Tue Jan 18, 2011 04:08pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by letemplay (Post 718391)
you saw the video, not the first time the ref, or a ref, saw the PLAY.

According to this logic, video replay is useless. :rolleyes:

letemplay Tue Jan 18, 2011 04:13pm

It would be in this situation. The call has to stand.

APG Tue Jan 18, 2011 04:18pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by letemplay (Post 718401)
It would be in this situation. The call has to stand.

I don't understand this statement? :confused: The video clearly shows the play was a travel. It also shows there was a foul on the play.

Adam Tue Jan 18, 2011 04:21pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by letemplay (Post 718401)
It would be in this situation. The call has to stand.

???

Thanks, Captain Obvious.

Obviously the call stands, it's not a reviewable play. It does, however, show the official missed the call. Now, he may have decided to let the travel go after letting the foul go, or he may have simply missed it. But the fact is, he missed it.

letemplay Tue Jan 18, 2011 04:34pm

So the replay shows he may have walked
 
What are you or anyone else gonna do with it now? Use it as a future training video? I'm only backing, not bashing, the official(s) on this. I'm betting any one of you would NOT have called a walk when seeing it FIRST and in REAL time. We could all pull tapes where we missed a call or two and besides the jump stops now a days have gotten out of hand imo. I agreed it was a walk when seeing it slow; I guess I just don't know what the point of questioning it now is. Most of you guys have been the first to come to the defense of fellow officials, rather than the other way around.

Signed,

Captain Obvious

Adam Tue Jan 18, 2011 04:38pm

A useless bet. We're critiquing the call, that's it. No one is bashing the officials here. I would like to think I'd have had the foul, but I'm pretty sure I'd have nailed the travel. I've called several just like it; it's a poorly executed jump stop.
You don't need to see it in slow motion, that's my point. First time I saw it, in real time, it was obvious to me it was a travel.

APG Tue Jan 18, 2011 04:42pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by letemplay (Post 718421)
What are you or anyone else gonna do with it now? Use it as a future training video? I'm only backing, not bashing, the official(s) on this. I'm betting any one of you would NOT have called a walk when seeing it FIRST and in REAL time. We could all pull tapes where we missed a call or two and besides the jump stops now a days have gotten out of hand imo. I agreed it was a walk when seeing it slow; I guess I just don't know what the point of questioning it now is. Most of you guys have been the first to come to the defense of fellow officials, rather than the other way around.

Signed,

Captain Obvious

No one is coming to the defense of the official because no one was attacking the official. Rather we are critiquing the call. If we can't do that, then we might as well get rid of video review.

As far as seeing the play in real time, I caught the travel the first time. I might of missed the foul though which is why it's important we watch tape.

letemplay Tue Jan 18, 2011 04:45pm

I'm cool with the critiquing
 
I enjoy everyone's different point of view here, thanks. And I don't believe video replay is useless, to the contrary, helpful in many instances. Especially to start arguments...I mean critiques.

just another ref Tue Jan 18, 2011 05:01pm

Just about any NCAA game you care to watch has numerous travels a lot more obvious than this one that are missed/ignored. It's headed in the direction of the NBA.

Raymond Tue Jan 18, 2011 05:19pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef (Post 718241)
He traveled because the defender pushed him with two hands...should have been a foul that caused the travel.

I just saw the play at lunch. That exactly what I saw.

Quote:

Originally Posted by letemplay (Post 718421)
What are you or anyone else gonna do with it now? Use it as a future training video? I'm only backing, not bashing, the official(s) on this. I'm betting any one of you would NOT have called a walk when seeing it FIRST and in REAL time. We could all pull tapes where we missed a call or two and besides the jump stops now a days have gotten out of hand imo. I agreed it was a walk when seeing it slow; I guess I just don't know what the point of questioning it now is. Most of you guys have been the first to come to the defense of fellow officials, rather than the other way around.

Signed,

Captain Obvious

In real time I couldn't see it was a travel b/c Walker's legs are blocked by the defenders from that camera angle. In the replay it's an obvious travel...caused by an obvious foul :D

Forksref Tue Jan 18, 2011 06:12pm

Did Jay throw a red flag on the court?

I real time it didn't look too bad. Angles of vision make it hard to see the details.

BillyMac Tue Jan 18, 2011 06:42pm

Three And Out ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer (Post 718343)
This is a legal play under NBA rules.

Kemba Walker is just getting ready for next year. He's only needs a few credits to earn his sociology degree, as a junior. Calhoun has already given him his blessing.

APG Tue Jan 18, 2011 08:06pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 718444)
Just about any NCAA game you care to watch has numerous travels a lot more obvious than this one that are missed/ignored. It's headed in the direction of the NBA.

The move I see players travel on the most is the spin move which incidentally would be legal under NBA rules.

JohnDorian37 Wed Jan 19, 2011 12:39pm

If a player is in the act of shooting, gets pushed, then travels, then releases and it goes in, we don't count the basket and give him two shots?

Adam Wed Jan 19, 2011 12:46pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnDorian37 (Post 719120)
If a player is in the act of shooting, gets pushed, then travels, then releases and it goes in, we don't count the basket and give him two shots?

Correct. The foul does not cause the ball to become dead, but the travel does. But he was still in the act of shooting, so you give him his two shots.

bob jenkins Wed Jan 19, 2011 12:47pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnDorian37 (Post 719120)
If a player is in the act of shooting, gets pushed, then travels, then releases and it goes in, we don't count the basket and give him two shots?

Is that a serious question? No, we don't. The travel ends the try.


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