Forfeit Video
 

Intentional foul, 2 technical fouls, and forfeit.

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Where is game management during all this? A coach getting ejected and sticking around like that is bad news and game management or an assistant coach needs to be on top of this quick. I know CHSealge would be all over this stat! ;)

Also, I'm not exactly sure what the 2nd T was for? Camera kind of pans up when the calling official whistles the 2nd T. It just looked weird when it came back and the T was issued while the coach had his back turned and I couldn't hear the coach. First T was definitely earned though.

The only problem I have with this is the pointing and gesturing by the official who issued the 2nd T. I don't mind giving the heave ho after the initial whistle but after I'm done. There's a point where the official is actually walking towards the irate coach and pointing towards the door! :eek: If I'm ejecting a coach, I'm getting away from him stat.

On a side note, gotta love our "unbiased" camera people at work haha

I heard someone yell that one of the teams had 6 players on the floor, & it sounds as if the coach yelled something he should not have.

Thank the coach for the forfeit as he made a travesty of himself & his team, hopefully that school/school district reprimanded him for his actions.

Concerning game management, I was asking myself the same question.

Perhaps the camera angle is poor but I don't see anything resembling an intentional foul in that video...even if it was an end-game situation where the fouling was "deliberate" through overplay. The ball handler got caught in a trap and was slinging the ball around when the defender tried to grab at it and perhaps got some arm....but also had a bunch of ball. He got slung around as the ball handler kept trying to keep the ball away from the defense. A foul, sure....but not intentional as far as I can see.

Lurking long enough, need help creating post.
 

I have been lurking around the basketball forum for some time now. Like the fact that, for the most part, everyone here seems to be genuine in wanting to maintain a courteous and professional atmosphere and help officials at all levels continue to improve.

In my 17th season officiating basketball. Done everything from 2nd grade kids up to adult rec. Haven't yet joined my state association, mainly because I used to work swing-shift and/or attended college classes at night.

Just when you think you've seen it all, something new comes your way, gotta love the game. Also believe you learn something new every season no matter how long or what levels you officiate.

***Anyway... I am attempting to post my first question for others to comment and will wait to see if this appears as a comment on someone's already existing post or as my own.

???? Question:

AAAA 8th grade boys. (NFHS Rules with some youth mods.)
Team A inbounding in FC from baseline. Has 3 players stand shoulder-to-shoulder (interlocking arms around waists) about a foot inside 3pt arc. Inbound pass from baseline to player cutting behind this "wall" who then makes 3pt attempt.

Legal?

I don't doubt he said/did something in addition. Just was weird since the camera panned away when we would of seen what got him the 2nd T. Again, I trust the officials judgement on the court. Also I only counted 5 players. If a 6th one came in, he probably was a sub at the table who mistakenly thought we was beckoned in.

This is an easy forfeit as the head coach failed to comply with the technical foul penalty.

The intentional, from what I noticed, was from white 22 bearhugging the ball handler.

It could be a team technical foul if it restricted an opponent's movement.

10-1
A team shall not:

Art. 10... Allow players to lock arms or grasp a teammate(s) in an effort to restrict the movement of an opponent.


Also in the future, if you wish to make a new thread, you can scroll down to the bottom of main basketball forum and click the new thread button. Also welcome to the forums!

#20 is fouled. #23 is in the bottom right of the video when the foul occurs.

#20 is set to take the free throws, all other players behind the 3 point line, when the first technical foul is called. #23 then switches places with #20. #23 is in the free throw semicircle after the 2nd technical foul and is still there when the game is forfeited. I wonder if the officials noticed.

I was a bit curious too, but I chalk it up to a bad angle though the calling official could of come out stronger with his preliminary signal. There's no way a coach should be confused about what was called on a play like an intentional foul IMO.

Are You Confusing Your Forums ???
 

The Official Forum ???

It looks like on the video that they are trying to foul earlier in the play...get the first one so you don't have to have situations like this.

It seems as though the lady in front of the person who shot the video was a little too anxious to get out of there... she gathered her stuff up within two seconds of the official saying the game was over. She was ready to GTFO!

As far as the play goes, I have no problem with an intentional called, but they might have been able to get away with a common foul and moved on. They were obviously trying to foul, and I didn't see anything too over the top for what the fouling team did to warrant the intentional foul. However, if the official saw an intentional foul there, I have no problem with it.

How come the calling official bailed out from staying table-side after calling the intentional foul? It seems to me that this would be a good time for the calling official to go over to the coach and tell him what he saw. Calmly, I think this situation could've been avoided. Was this a college game? That's the only thing that I could think as to why the official went opposite table. I think the coach was wondering why an intentional was called, and no one gave him an ear or explanation....

However, I have no problem with the forfeit. He made a complete a$$ of himself after he was ejected.

Lastly, "He should be calling a tech on that kid... It should be a tech."

That's what I was thinking.

And if there is going to be an X on the play, one has to come up with that soon after the whistle. Iow, don't surprise everyone with an X at the table. That's just mho.

The new trail did come up with the X immediately.

Hmmm..... deliberately sending the wrong FTer carries a penalty. One could interpret that #23, who went to the line on his own accord, didn't know that the penalties are administered in the order they occur. This is likely because in the NBE, I believe, that the T's are shot at POI. And likely they watch more NBE than have situations like this in their Fed games.

Just saw it after seeing it again. I also saw the L having a much earlier whistler and foul call.

#23 only steps to the line after they called the first technical foul...#20 went to the line originally. Confused?

The lead and the trail almost reported the fouls side by side.

"Pay $3." :D

At some point during sequence where the foul occurred did #20 black catch one of the defenders with an elbow to the face? I don't see anything connecting but the defender the official is walking away from the play does wipe at his nose.

Also, from this camera angle I don't see an intentional foul.

In opening sequence when ball is inbounded opposite table, C is almost in back court??? Trail is deeper than he is? Looks like trail is motioning him to get to C. Notice play in question, you have two leads.

Personally, I didnt see anything to warrant an intentional foul. Hard to see on tape.

noone sees any problem with offensive player having elbows above shoulders and doing a 360 while flailing them? just askin...

I did notice. But looks like they were moving with his torso.

And after further viewing it appears the contact to the defenders face was from an accidental headbutt from Black 20. Still don't see an intentional foul.

Tableside official seemed to in La-La Land this entire sequence. Headed the wrong direction for the throw-in. Slow to come down into the C. Runs ahead of the fast break as if he was the new Lead.

The C likely hung back in case the DL was threatened. I have no problem with the mechanic, although it wasn't needed as there was no pressure on the throw-in. I do think he should have migrated to the slot quicker.

Thanks for posting, much to learn from this video. Mostly what "not" to do.

Have bears/packers on my mind, DL, defensive lineman?

I think he thought he was trail for whole vid. Trail inbounding gives him a motion to move down, and in transition, he's the new lead............

Edit: division line, nope dont buy it at all. Legimate trail is a few feet away. no need.

It also appears they are coming out of a timeout if thats the case, why is new lead going long?

I see a bigger problem with the officials not getting the first foul. In this situation, ask yourself why the player is swinging his elbows -- it's because he's getting fouled and the officials haven't stepped in and called it.

"what we have here is a failure to communicate..."

this whole end-of-game scenario could have turned out differently if the crew had communicated better in a lot of different areas...

- looks to me like 2 of the 3 officials were unsure as to which team would have the ball after the time out (the lead runs from the opposite end of the floor and Center is out of position before the ball is indounded).
- after the foul is called, the T never really communicates with his partners that he called an intentional foul. they don't seem to identify the shooter and are wandering around trying to figure out what happens next.
- the new trail never makes an attempt to talk to the white coach (or calm him down in any way) because he is not sure what the call is. therefore he doesn't know what to say to the coach...so he stays away - this adds to the coaches' anger/frustration.
- the only positive in this whole scenario is the Trail calling the T.
- NONE of the officials makes any attempt to engage the coach (whether to explain the intentional or calm him down after the T)...this adds to the coaches' anger/frustration.
- the officials NEVER get together to discuss how to administer the foul shots and will what happen next (intentional FT's first? - then T second? - where to indbounds the ball? - etc)
- after the 2nd T (same official who called intentional), the official never reports that T to the table.
- AGAIN the officials NEVER make any attempt to talk about the admin procedure.
- One of the officials did absolutely NOTHING...he didn't help on any of the calls, didn't talk w/ either of his partners, and didn't even make a move to get the coach moving towards the locker room...not sure what he was thinking!
- lastly, neither partner did anything to calm the official who ultimately called a forfeit down (he's the one who feels like he's getting dumped on after the intentional call, is getting screamed at after the second T, and gets so emotional that he just can't take it any more and ends the game).

Would the end result have been any different if the officials had communicated even a little bit?...maybe not, but they certainly did not help themselves and should have done better. imho, they did not handle this situation very well and should have communicated MUCH better.

I'm telling you guys. Keep a frying pan in your bag and don't be afraid to use it. :cool:

Those elbows did appear to be WAAYY wide of the ball handlers body and he was swinging them, IMO, with "intent". I agree the first foul should have been called, but the elbows raised a red flag right away.

+1