Warranted T?
 

Well, I pulled the trigger for the first time this season this week.

Coach was complaining about just about every call, but nothing too huge. I ignored all comments. Then he asked a question about a call and I answered. I told him what I saw and he didn't like the answer and kept going. Finally, I told him that I will answer questions...not statements.

Two more trips down the floor...he dislikes another call and starts to rant: "I know you're mad at me, but don't punish my kids. It's just not about you it's about the kids." At that...WHACK! Question my integrity...take a seat.

After that, no problems with the coach. The unfortunate thing is that the game went to OT (where they lost), which might not have happened without those tech FT'S. If the coach would've kept it together...

The thing that REALLY sucks is that I'll get a bad rating for that night. Coaches rank us here in MI. So...another one bites the dust.

So...warranted??? I don't call many T's, so I usually question them. I guess we all do. I don't question this as much, though. Felt solid. I just need to take my emotion out of the call. I'm really working on calling a T just like any other foul.

I think you're just fine here. When a coach accuses us of something like that, they've made their own bed.

Sounds like you did just fine. I don't mind a coach saying I missed a call, but anything questioning integrity deserves the T.

There's the problem right there imo. If you let any coach get away with complaining on just about every call, it usually will lead to nuthin' but more headaches. All you've done is given the coach licence to b!tch at you.

Righteous "T" imo, but maybe you could have warned the coach a heckuva lot earlier about his complaining and then whacked him if he ignored your warning. That may have stopped the later problem.

I had a conversation with a coach once, it went like this.

Me- "you coach, I ref"

Him "But......"

Me - " you coach, I ref"

Him " But you didn't...."

Last time Me- You COACH, I REF"

Him " " Silence, he finally got it.

No problems the rest of the night.

We get rated by the coaches also. I don't think that is fair.

3 years ago, I gave out 20 "T's" 2 years ago 7 Last year 6 and none so far this year. Almost one today, but I passed and it worked out fine ( my partner didn't pass and gave one ) Same game, different situation.

I have the worse coaches rating in my board for a varsity official ( 2.40 , 1.00 would be the perfect but our best is a 1.70) we have classes, I ( the best ) II ( Varsity eligible ) and III. I am a Class I but the coaches kill me.

We have about 50 officials, about 9 are class I's.

Well played.

Or, if the losing team would have hit an extra shot.
Or, if the winning missed a shot that they hit.
Or, if a free throw was made/missed one way or the other.

Or, or, or....

Bottom line: A game's outcome is made up of 32 (or 36, 40 etc.) minutes, NEVER one play.

From what I have been told by some top officials is that a technical foul is a tool that you may use to better the game.

There are times that coaches know that they deserve a T and if it is not given to them you may lose more by not giving them the T than you could by giving the T. Coaches should know when to expect a T.

I had a coach once who kept complaining about every call. After a warning he said "T me up I dare you" - dare acceptrd - whack!!!

My daughter played for him one year and he got a T EVERY game!!!

That's a sportsmanship issue that the league and the state ought to be dealing with.

This is a rule of thumb, but keep in mind it's not always applicable.

Sometimes you just have to take care of unsporting behavior. There are times a good T won't make the game better, and there are times when the game will get better in spite of not giving a T that should have been given.

Just think of it as a normal call. Most of the time, it will make the game better; but don't think twice about your T just because the game continued to go into the tank.

This conversation tells me that you are unapproachable. That will stunt your progress at any level past JV Boys. Whether coaches get to directly rate or not, rest assured that coaches talk to each other and to your supervisor. You are fortunate to have that data point, so you can choose to do something about it and help yourself. You need to find a better balance between listening to coaches and managing them. Focus and listening and understanding what they are trying to communicate before you shut them down as a nuisance.

You're reading way too much into a short conversation for which we have no context. There are times when it's appropriate to shut off the "approachable" switch.

You're also missing the final part of his post, where he indicates he's already moved way past JV boys.

Had a game earlier this year where a GV coach was whining about a non-call.Guy was administering free throws while his lady counterpart was standing table side with the coach who just had a foul called against his team.Coach yells to guy "Be a man and make a call"-Whack from the lady! First tech in a girls game all year!

He's saying the coaches do not rate him well. There is a reason for that. Officials that are "unapproachable" never prosper, and that label is easy to get and hard to shake, fair or not. The #1 reason officials have moved down the ladder or been dropped from my rosters over the past 15 years is coaches feedback that they are unapproachable, and that is universally true at every level until you are an established D-1 official. Sometimes, coaches need to be dealt with bluntly, given technicals, and even be ejected, but when that happens, it is how we do that which makes the difference. Being approachable and professional in all we do matters. Cutting off a coach like that is generally not a great idea. This is a people business.

I'm glad coaches have ZERO input into our high school evaluations.

Maybe a bit harsh but +1. There is a much better way to handle this sitch, but without context you do seem a bit confrontational. Remember, most coaches just want to be heard.. usually a few conversational words can diffuse the situation. Just saying..

Not directly, but rest assured they have indirect input, particularly for post-season.

How do you have any idea how such things operate here in the Old Dominion?
I think you are improperly projecting from the Commonwealth of PA into the Commonwealth of VA. Do you reach that far in your games?

Not even remotely in my area.....none at all.....zip, nada......

This is my 11th year. I have been doing Varsity games since year 3. I have been doing play off games since year 3 and I have done post season tournaments.

That coach was either a middle school coach or a freshman coach, he was constantly trying to tell me what I was doing wrong


" that's a reach"

"He walked"

"It's over the back"

I got tired of it.

We had a conversation and he was fine after that.

On the varsity level, I have conversations with coaches as needed but they are rare.

I had one the other night where from 60 feet away the coach knew it was a foul and I am 5 feet from the play.

I explained that there was no way he could see a foul from where he was, when I am 5 feet from the play and I didn't see a foul.

Coach said " that's the problem, you didn't see the foul"

How can you win? The player going to the basket clearly tried to avoid the contact to get his shot off and did.

As for my coaches rating, I believe that the problem is, many of our officials are very friendly with the coaches. I am not. I don't go to the bars after a game and I rarely ever see a coach in public. Many of our officials and coaches do more than 1 sport. I do not.

- Answer questions in 10 words or less and then get away from the coach. And there's nothing the matter with a coach having the last word as you're walking away as long as the last words aren't profane, derogatory, etc.
- don't initiate conversations unless you have information to pass
- warn once, not 3 times.
- follow up on all warning
- be approachable but distant at the same time

Works for me. Mileage may vary.

+1

This part sounds paradoxical. Another way to think about it: be approachable without encouraging the approach.

Same here. There is a absolutely no evaluation tool available for high school coaches for whom we officiate (I was going to say service but I know where that would have led :eek: ). Of coures come play-off time the assignor may take into account some personality differences in making assignments, but after the 1st round even that has to go out the window.

Not so here. Coaches have to rate (Not really evaluate) every official in every varsity contest, no exceptions. They can be banned from postseason play if they don't rate their officials. These ratings factor into postseason assignments (sectionals/quarterfinals/championships). For district play, all officials that want to work in the postseason basically just sign up. The host schools all hold a "draft" to pick their officials for their district. I'm not sure how much input the coach of each team gets though.

Here's a typical...and true... story on that, Newz......

The convenor of one high school league we service (:D ) asked me if their coaches could have input as to whom I assigned in their playoffs. I said "sure, get your coaches together and give me a list of people that you all agree you'd like to see." Note the key word was "agree". Well, I'm still waiting. And I knew I would be. The coaches couldn't agree on a list because of their individual likes, dislikes and biases. They all want that special official that will give them what they consider to be a fair share of the calls, which means that every close call has to go their way. One coach had a certain official rated #1; another coach didn't even have that official on his list. And they're all afraid that they'll get somebody who they didn't want but the other coaches did. That was the last I heard of that one.

How about instead of saying this, you say this? That seems like a much more reasonable answer that would (possibly) satisfy the coach.

Same here. ZERO input on our assignments.

With all due respect, bull$hit. You have no way of knowing how assignments, whether regular season or post season, are handled everywhere.

I can tell you for sure that they have no input whatsoever here. The assignor books conference tourneys and Sectionals before teams are even seeded. He also selects Regional and State crews and submits them to the state association. Further, local crews only work the first two rounds of the playoffs. Teams see crews from neutral associations for the last 4 rounds.

So while they may have input where you live, that doesn't mean it works that way everywhere.

Two sides to every story...
 

I hope your association requires you to make a report on Ts because if they're going to let coaches rate officials (no chance of any bias here), they need to let officials be on record with their side of the story.

That sounds great! But alas, no, we do not report a single T...we do, however report ejections to the state (MHSAA - Michigan).

Long story short, the league that this guy was in, I'll never get varsity. Reference this thread: http://forum.officiating.com/basketb...ck-game-3.html for the entire story. I work with two other assignors that give me varsity games and know me and have worked with me. :)

Taking care of business means dealing with this howler monkey before he becomes a candidate for ABS. These situations suck, because we're essentially playing babysitter to an adult, but meh, we get paid well.

"Coach, officiating is all about getting the correct angle. When you're in position to see the whole play, you'll get it right almost 100% of the time. When you're out of position...you're just guessing. Who do you think was in better position to see that play...you @ 60 ft away...or me @ 5ft?"

try that next time....OR...

"Coach did you see that play? (YES)...then you know it was a foul, you really can't complain about it, can you."
"Coach did you see that play? (Not Really)...then you really can't complain about it, can you?"

How did he phrase the question?

Yeah...you're right. I probably should've told him enough was enough earlier. I did let him know that I am more than happy to answer questions...guess he didn't get the point that comments aren't welcome. :)

Should've given the stop sign earlier, before he got to the automatic trigger of questioning integrity...

Consider that stolen.

In real life you'll get this....

"Coach, did you see that play?"
"Yes, and you screwed it up completely."

And now you have to deal with that, one way or another.

If you really think that any coach is ever gonna admit that he didn't see a play he was whining about ("not really"), it's time to give up those pre-game funny cigarettes. :D

My point a few messages up is that if the coach doesn't ask a question, why even bother responding? The official knows the coach is 60 feet away, the coach knows he's 60 feet away. I'd rather just let it go -- if he repeats it a second or third time, then a quick, "You know, I had a pretty good look all the way down there" and then get the hell out of Dodge.

And you are wise beyond your years imo. A simple nod of the head sometimes just to indicate to the coach that you heard him might suffice on some occasions also. And once you get away from the coach, if he wants to give you instant replay when you get near him next, hey, then that's on him.

We can get ourselves into trouble sometimes with our over-active mouths.

Don't be so quick to steal it. I had a supervisor at a game observe me call a travel followed by the coach saying "that's wasn't a travel". My supervisor told me he saw me respond with "that was a travel" (which is what I did say). ]

My supervisor said I shouldn't be so intent on being right b/c the game film might come back to bite you in the a$$ one day. He said either don't respond or ask a question like "did I miss it?" or "what did you see?".

Of course that's just his opinion (based on his own experiences), but since he is giving me games you best believe I will adhere to that advice.

"Coach, I'm not here for a history lesson." :rolleyes: