Okay, last week we talked about players wearing rubberbands during a game. I had a new one at a game last night.

Coach calls all the players to the bench with 2 minutes left in warm-up and gives them all bubble gum. I asked one of the girls if he always does that and she says that he does. It seems no one has ever made an issue about the safety of possible falling down and chocking on the chewing gum.

I allowed it last night because I couldn't think of any reason why it would be illegal but on second thought, I probably should have had them all spit it out.

I figure I could have done it under rule 2-3. Declare it a safety/health hazard and have them all spit it out...

Or I could simply have lied and said that this school does not allow bubble gum in the gym and as visitors to the school, they have to abide by the same rules...

Any thoughts!

R

Interesting question. So far in all of my games I've allowed gum, but never really thought about it. I'd say unless it interferes with the game let it go. If players can have mouth guards, why not gum? It's kind of like looking for jewelry that "isn't in sight", if you know what I mean. In other words, don’t go looking for trouble & if it ain’t broke don’t fix it.

Don't even think about invoking the elastic clause with regard to players chewing gum. In my humble opinion, chewing gum while playing any sport execpt golf and bowling is dangerous. I will not let our sons chew gum while playing basketball, baseball, football, swimming, or gymnastics. BUT, if you try to keep players from chewing gum while playing basketball or any other sport, you are just going to bring a world of hurt on yourself.

Back in the old days...
 

...When chewing gum was <u>still</u> legal, our entire team was chewing, and it made a great difference for avoiding "cotton mouth".
I will not ban it. It's a good thing.
mick

If I see it...it comes out. If not...I don't go looking for it. Same with ankle bracelets & tongue piercing...yuck!!

Please tell me under what NFHS or NCAA rule that gives the officials the authority to tell players that they cannot chew gum while playing?

My wife tells me I can't chew gum & walk, but usually when
we're dancing. Not the same thing, eh? :)

My wife tells me that I can't chew and ... I had better leave well enough alone.

I've never thought about using the elastic clause for anything. ;)

I have been a member of different associations and states, where chewing gum was an automatic "no no"
Personally, I have them get rid of it if I see them chewing but I don't go looking for it.
I know Refs who chew gum while working......maybe that is why their whistle is way to silent when it is needed. Hmmm,,,

Leave it alone.

What!!!

Why would you ban chewing gum???

This is going wayyyy to far.

Gum Chewing
 

Oh my gosh I am totally blown away by this. Why on earth would you ever care if someone is chewing gum? Why would you look? If they are going to chew gum then so be it. How can this impose a safety hazard. Yea so they swallow it - PLEASE!
An official who goes looking or attempting to stop this type of situation is asking to light a match at a gasoline factory - it can only blow up in your face!
You are there to facilitate the game in a fair, equal, and intelligent manner. This is defiantly not intelligent!

I see I`ve opened up quite the can of worms here.

My point, and I did have one, is that chewing gum could become a choking hazard.

There is a reason why countless phys ed teachers around the country don`t allow chewing gum in their gyms. Believe it or not, but it`s not to protect the floors. Custodians have become quite good at removing gum from hardwood.

As a coach, I wouldn`t give my players gum during a game. As an official, judging by the reactions this thread has garnered here, I won`t be looking for it in games that I`m officiating either.

Rene Gaudreau

I cannot tell you how many times I have seen players "LOSE" thier gum on the court.
You now have trash on the floor that needs to be removed, thus a delay.
I have also seen some very questionable "choking incidents" that resulted in an officials timeout (ie injury) to deal with the problem, and lo and behold, the player is alright after all but now the players have had a breather.
Coaches will use anything to gain an advantage, and gum is one of them.
I don't allow it, if I see it you have to get rid of it.
If you have a problem with gum (that I didn't see) then leave the court, give me a sub and we will play ball.

About all I can say is "WOW"!!

<i> Coaches will use anything to gain an advantage, and gum is one of them. I don't allow it, if I see it you have to get rid of it. If you have a problem with gum (that I didn't see) then leave the court, give me a sub and we will play ball.</i>

Amen to the "wow" comment. Have you honestly seen a coach use gum to their advantage?

IMHO, if you are making players get rid of their gum, then you are looking for trouble. Look hard enough and you'll find it.

Z

Still,
 

Besides being a little OOO please answer the earlier question:

Under what Federation or NCAA rule do you ban gum?

Just wondering.

To answer a few of the questions,,,,,,
I have seen a coach direct a player to "drop" their gum on the court during a particularly heavy set of breaks, in order to give their players a rest.
"Look Ref, there is gum on the floor, we gotta get that up." From a 5A school. Have seen it happen many times over the years.
Have a choking episode to slow down the action.
Player B5 appears to choke and takes a knee around mid-court.
"Hey Ref, that kid is hurt!" From a repetitive state finals team. Happened over 10 years ago and last year while I was watching, not working.

If you haven't seen the cheap tricks, then you haven't seen the amount of ball that I have.

What rule do I use to justify my actions if forbidding gum?
Rule 2 Section 3

Like my old assignor used to say, "If you ain't got the balls to make the call, get off of the floor. The tough calls that are unpopular will tell you if you want to work a game or have the game worked on you."

Onions, Scott. Around here, folks carry their courage in their onions.

Scott,don't you think that,sometime since they hung up the ol' peach baskets,the rulesmakers in NFHS,NCAA,NBA,FIBA,etc. would have put in a rule if they thought gum chewing was dangerous or a problem? There never has been such a rule EVER in ANY of the rulesets!That should tell you all you need to know right there.

Rule 2-3 wasn't put there for officials to make up their own rules according to their own personal biases.Over the last 44 years that I've officiated,I have neither used R2-3,nor have I ever seen it invoked.Also,as an "old" assignor myself,I would be awful leary of any official that would invoke this rule for something like gum chewing.Where do you think you are going to stand with any league you are working in,if they don't agree with you that chewing gum is a safety issue? This whole scenario has nothing to do with having "balls" as an official.It does have something to do with using a little common sense before you start WW3.

You really should find yourself another windmill to tilt at!:D

This whole scenario has nothing to do with having "balls" as an official.It does have something to do with using a little common sense before you start WW3.

Hmm, I have never had any conflict with any coach in over 20 years of officiating for forbidding chewing gum.
I have seen more flak than I would have ever thought of on the rubberband issue, though.

You have to understand, at the pre-game, I tell them to get rid of it and they do. No arguements, no questions.
A simple, "Tell your players no gum while on the court, please." and the issue is over.
Maybe it is in how I apprach it, another facet of game management.
The association that I have joined recently after moving has also advised that we tell the coaches and team captains, "no gum or candy"
I have been a member of 7 different state high school associations in the last 20 years and this has been a standard thing. Frankly I am surprised to see that it is not pretty uniform in approach nationally.
Adult rec ball is another matter, some of those programs allow the players to smoke while sitting on the bench!

No, no, Juulie. I think you misunderstood. He means literal basketballs. If you don't have a ball on the court, then how can you play? So if you don't have the balls (the game ball and a back-up), you might as well get off the court, b/c the teams won't be able to play anyway.

That's what he meant, right?

Chuck

Soooo....If a player refused to spit out his gum, you would call the game?

It looks like we stumbled into a pretty emotional issue. I guess a state association or conf. could ban chewing gum, but, I still don't see where in the rules we can keep them from having it. The elastic rule is a pretty weak defense. I could tell a kid with knee high white socks with yellow and blue stipes around the top he cannot play because it is a safty hazzard, but I would never do that...

If a coach is abusing it, write the facts up and let the state deal with it. But, we cannot read their minds so I don't know how you would prove they sent a kid into pretend to choke. I mean, if the coach is really doing it on purpose and you take away their gum what would stop them from faking a "groin" injury or a ankle twist, how will you stop that? We cannot legislate everything.

<b>Please tell me under what NFHS or NCAA rule that gives the officials the authority to tell players that they cannot chew gum while playing?</b>

I think it's pretty straight forward from some officials, Mark. This falls under Safety Concerns, 3-7. While 3-7 specifies hair and fingernails, it clearly does not rule out gum.

Although, personally, I have no problem with gum if it stays in the mouth!

Earlier Scott said:

I have seen a coach direct a player to "drop" their gum on the court during a particularly heavy set of breaks, in order to give their players a rest. "Look Ref, there is gum on the floor, we gotta get that up."

Number 1 I don't like kids telling me what I "gotta" do. But man, if you've got that kind of evidence ("seen a coach direct a player to drop their gum"). T- the manipulative prick. T- the kid too, if you like. This is surely unsportsman-like play.

Then he said:
Have a choking episode to slow down the action. Player B5 appears to choke and takes a knee around mid-court. "Hey Ref, that kid is hurt!"

In my opinon, if you are certain this is a ploy, either play on and see how quickly he recuperates, or show your concern by requiring the coach to make a substitution. And don't back off when he is all better 15 seconds later. Require the substitution. "I still need a sub and you've only got 15 second left before I T-bone you."

Of what you have said, I think the preventive officiating is the best choice. If you don't want it in your game, show your safety concern by discussing it in the pregame. Then you have established the basis for having it removed during the game.

Because, rule-wise, I don't think you have a leg to stand on. There are many things on the court that are dangerous. We can't arbitrarily remove some of them and let other's be accepted. If we start that, then you have created a liability for yourself - you felt one thing was a safety concern and you removed it. Someone else feels and proves that something else is a safety concern and you have not removed it. A player gets hurt. You're getting paid; you're making up rules as you see fit; your game is not strictly abiding by the written rules; you're liable. We only have the rules to work within.

Any time I have had a player found with gum, he goes out of the game until the problem is rectified. More often than not, they will swallow it.
The old fake injury thing has been around forever, I always have concern for player safety, thus a substitution is going to be required.....if the player is down, the coach is coming out at my request.
You know what I mean?

I am really amazed at the vociferous objection to establishing your own authority to control the game by members here.
If you think it is a problem, don't allow it. We did this before the rule was established for the fingernail issue (when was that?).

Staying ahead of possible trouble is part of game management.
Call your game and it will be your game.

Besides the fact that I am totally amazed that any referee would possibly tell a player to remove gum, I think the big issue here is the risk to other players.

From what I can tell, all other rules governing allowable equipment is designed to protect players from injury - specifically players other than those with the equipment.

Can anyone explain to me how on earth chewing gum could injure any player other than the one chewing it? Surely if the player chewing the gum is made aware of the risk (ie choking) and chooses to chew gum, then there is no reason to prevent them from chewing gum.

Oz, like I have said, you call your game.
I routinely do over 100 HS Varsity games a season, not to mention the JV and middle school games that go along with each school year.
Hell, I don't allow college players to chew gum either.
Adult ball is another matter.
To those who are so adamnant in saying that it is wrong, then you have either never had a problem, are unaware, or are scared to take a stand against the game delaying issues of gum on the floor and needless risk to a player.

I didn't bring up the original subject, so I can't be the only one who has a question about it, now can I?

Just for the record, I dont' allow rubber bands either. That arguement is still going on also.

How does this happen? 100 HS V + college + adult
rec league? (Maybe I ain't working hard enough?)

FWIW, if a player wants to chew gum I ain't gonna be the
guy who tells him to spit it out. If you're athletic enough
to chew gum & walk you're welcome to stay in my game.

How does this happen? 100 HS V + college + adult
rec league? (Maybe I ain't working hard enough?)

FWIW, if a player wants to chew gum I ain't gonna be the
guy who tells him to spit it out. If you're athletic enough
to chew gum & walk you're welcome to stay in my game


I work a couple of differnt associations as a rule, am available around the clock and willing to travel. It isn't always easy to get them but you can do it.
Of course, you don't have much of a life outside of officiating either, but hey.....I am single and enjoy doing it. I have worked as many as 4 varsity games a day, 2 in the AM and 2 at night. It doesn't put that much strain on you if you are in shape, and running is easy for me.
My local association realistically expects a level 3 official (we rank from 1 down to 5) or above, to work at least 60 varsity contests each season. We have approximately 160 officials working.
You have to live or travel to where the games are at and it works out.


As for your choice on gum, more power to you. Like I have said, it is your choice unless you are like me and the associations that I have worked with.......don't allow it.
Multiple states have refused to allow the player to chew gum, and some of those states are included in those who say they won't do it.
When your assignor or assocation tells you to do the little things, that is just one way to step up to the higher level.
I have called state finals in 2 states and regionals in another 3.
Sometimes you have to do what the boss wants even though it sounds stupid.

1) Rubber bands are not legal. Rubber bands are considered jewlery under NFHS, NCAA, and FIBA rules.

2) Yes, chewing gum while playing basketball is not a smart thing to do. My wife and I do not allow our sons to chew gum while playing any of the sports in which they participate. BUT, there is nothing in the Elastic Clauses of the rules per NFHS, NCAA, FIBA, or NBA/WNBA, that gives the Referee the authority to prohibit the chewing gum by the players. Furthermore there is nothing in any of the rules codes that prohibites the chewing of gum by the players PERIOD. If I were a player and you told me to take stop chewing my gum, I would be very tempted to tell you to tak a long walk off a short pier. In a note to Bard: NFHS R3-S7 does not cover chewing gum.

3) I do not know of any StateHSAA that bans players from chewing gum while playing basketball. I know that the OhioHSAA and MichiganHSAA does not, and I have checked with my friends in Connecticut, New Jersey, New York, Florida, and South Carolina, and these states do not either.

4) When it comes to a player chewing gum, do what Oprah says: "Don't go there girl."

4) I officiate between 350 and 400 basketball games every year at all levels from middle school to college, CYO, AAU, YBOA. And I am a bald old geezer.

3) I do not know of any StateHSAA that bans players from chewing gum while playing basketball. I know that the OhioHSAA and MichiganHSAA does not, and I have checked with my friends in Connecticut, New Jersey, New York, Florida, and South Carolina, and these states do not either


I can tell you point blank that you are wrong about at least one of these states you just listed.
I just last week attended the mandatory rules clinic, and.....it is not allowed.

I am not going to debate this any further, if you want to allow it, go ahead. I am not and I am comfortable in the knowledge that what I am doing is by the direction of the state and my association.

I have never rung up a T on gum, but if a player tells me to take a hike over it, I just might do that....right over to the coach and inform him that player A1 is gone for a flagrant followed by the obligatory 2 shots and the ball to B.

Call your game, and I will call mine.
I must be doing something right, I have more requests for work than I could possibly fill.
Maybe Rut is right when he goes on and on about court presence and people management.
MAN!, now you have me agreeing with Rut, what would yaworski say about that?

It's not a question of being in shape to work the games,
it's a matter of being available for 100 HS V games a
season. I work more leagues than I care to admit to, I've
never come close to working 100 *real* games a year, college
included. If I include camps, rec, etc then sure, but 100
*real* games?

BTW, congrats on your state finals, but if I'm the R during
a game we work together you ain't sending anyone off for
chewing gum. FWIW

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Quote:

...I am a bald old geezer.

Nothing wrong with that! :)

Do not reference me for this one.
 

If having every player take out the gum in their mouth works for you and your assignment chairman has not problem with you doing that, then more power to you. I see no purpose and see no rule or ruling that backs this practice of yours up, but when in Rome you do what the Romans do I guess. But do not try to side with what I am saying to justify your position. I would never tell a coach to have his players take gum our of their mouths in the name of safety. I do not see what people skills have to do with doing that.

Peace

Just for the record,Scott,could you tell us exactly which states actually ban gum? To be quite honest,I've never heard of this before.

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Oct 23rd, 2002 at 03:07 AM]

<i> I just last week attended the mandatory rules clinic, and.....it is not allowed.</i>

You mean they actually talked about chewing gum at your rules clinic? That was actually a topic? Come on. This whole thread is just a big joke right? We've been had right? Tell us some states that instruct you to make players get rid of their gum.

And I'm with Dan if you really are serious. If you are my partner for the championship game and you start talking about making players get rid of their gum, I'm going to find a nice comfortable place under the bleachers to hide.

Z

Please tell me under what NFHS or NCAA rule that gives the officials the authority to tell players that they cannot chew gum while playing?

I think it's pretty straight forward from some officials, Mark. This falls under Safety Concerns, 3-7. While 3-7 specifies hair and fingernails, it clearly does not rule out gum.

Gum! Gum! I like gum. Do you like gum? Are you telling me that I cannot chew gum while playing basketball? Not! The next thing you are going to tell me is SAFETY ? Well what about low cut basketball shoes? Shouldn't that be a safety issue for sprain ankles ? Rule 2 section 3 ??? Duh?

So you are telling me that:

a)Chewing gum presents a risk to players other than the one chewing it?

b)If all of Team A is chewing gum, you will instruct them to remove it. If they refuse what are you going to do? Abandon the game?

As far as players deliberatly faking injuries, or intentionally dropping gum on the floor - I'm not scared, I'll T them up so fast they head will spin. But why go looking for problems? I play basketball, and have been chewing gum in every game that I have played in the last 15 years (several hundred games). I have NEVER accidentally swalloed my gum, nor have I ever dropped it on the floor.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahaa...
..........is this for real?
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahaha
ha. youve got to be kidding me. whoooooooooooooooo.
thats a good one!

I always wondered how refs were so good at tuning out fans and coaches. Now I know! You practice on each other during the offseason!

What? ;)

Awww, Dan. You're not old! :p

Seriously, though, I agree with just about everything Dan said. I have never had, seen, or even heard of a problem with a player chewing gum, going back 20 years to when I was a HS player myself.

I would be shocked if any state HS association has passed a provision banning chewing gum from basketball competition. Like Dan, if I'm the R, we're not telling anybody to get rid of it.

Lastly, in my association, we're not allowed to work more than one HS Varsity contest in one day (unless there are unforseen, unavoidable circumstances). So the most HS V games I've ever worked in season is 34. Throw in 15 college games (including juco) and a Freshman game as a favor to the assignor, and I do a max of about 50 games a season.

chuck

[Edited by ChuckElias on Oct 23rd, 2002 at 09:51 AM]

Actually, no. Since the fed used the buy-in rule for blood and injuries, the coach can buy a TO and keep an injured player. Or, at least that is what our state wants us to do.

You haven't been had, the emphasis has been there.
In the past Texas, Louisiana, Kentucky and Ohio said "no" to gum. I haven't been in any of those state in at least 2 years, so maybe things have changed.
Florida last week said to tell them to get rid of it in the rules clinic. I don't remember who brought it up but it was said.
I don't remember what Alabama had to say about it, but the local association did say "no" to gum back in the 80's.
No association that I have worked with over the last 20 years has gone head hunting over it.
Some of you seem to think that this becomes a T fest or a way to stir up trouble.
I have never T'd anyone for it, and rarely have I sent a player off the floor for gum. I have T'd a player for the fake injury thing without any hesitation.
This summer, I worked approximately 70 varsity level games at camps run by two colleges designed for HS programs. Gum was a "no no" there as was candy.

I really must suppose that some of you guys have never worked outside of your local area much if any at all. Thus you don't see the different focus on certain things.
If you are my R and you refuse to allow me send a player off of the court for what I feel is a safety hazard, then you are in violation of Rule 2.
That would make you a very dangerous partner to work with.
Like I said, you call your game and I will call mine.
Different things are emphasized by different state and local associations.
I am having trouble getting used to the difference between the former Texas association and here with regards to hand checking. Here, you practically have to grab the opposing player and hold them before it is called....not so in the former Texas association nor like Louisiana..hell, Alabama could've cared less back when I was there in the 80's. So things change.
Just like the line up on the lane. Florida no longer allows a player into the lower block much like the NCAA mechanic. This is not so according to one of the mavens of this board back in the summer. Amazingly, that whiz kid found out just how wrong he was when I contacted him personally by email and called his assoc. president. I guess that whiz kid will attend the state field clinic to come up to speed.
Get outside of your area, outside of your comfort zone and you will indeed find that things are different.

Dealing with the unpopular calls will tell you how good your people skills are, ejections are rare as are Ts.
Hell, some of you are worried about lists of words that get you tossed......? I have never had a coach curse me directly that didn't remove himself. I didn't have to toss them, they knew that they had crossed the line and left on their own. Not bad for 20 years.

We are not worthy of your presence, forgive us for doubting your words, o wise and powerful one.

http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/jpshakehead.gif

Gimmee a fresh stick !
 

This stick is chewed. :cool:
mick

Uh-oh. Now you've done it. I'm quite sure we'll get a 20 paragraph response on the history (or lack thereof) of gum-chewing in Ohio. Bring it on, Mark!! :D

Quote:

I have never T'd anyone for it, and rarely have I sent a player off the floor for gum. I have T'd a player for the fake injury thing without any hesitation.

I know I'm not going to change your mind on this, Scott, but isn't T'ing the kid for faking enough of a resolution to the problem? Why worry about whether kids have gum? Why not just worry about whether they're being unsportsmanlike? Penalize the kid for actually doing something wrong; not for having something that he MIGHT use to try to trick you.

Quote:

If you are my R and you refuse to allow me send a player off of the court for what I feel is a safety hazard, then you are in violation of Rule 2.

I disagree. If I'm the R and you think sweatbands are a safety hazard, I will not allow you to remove the player. If we disagree on something not covered specifically by the rules, then the R makes the decision. Does that violate Rule 2? I could be wrong, but I don't think it does.

Quote:

Dealing with the unpopular calls will tell you how good your people skills are

Absolutely true. The problem, of course, is that there is no "call" to be made regarding chewing gum. It is neither illegal by rule, nor discussed in the casebook. You're not making a tough call, you're making up a rule. Hey, if everybody in your area (officials, coaches, ADs, parents) all agree that a no-gum policy will be implemented, then that's absolutely fine. But if you're just doing it by fiat, then I think it's not appropriate.

Quote:

I have never had a coach curse me directly that didn't remove himself. I didn't have to toss them, they knew that they had crossed the line and left on their own.

Hey, sign me up for your local board. Of course, I'm not sure I'm willing to move to Neverland. That sounds a little too good to be true, although I'm not doubting your word, Scott. I just think it's highly unusual. Most coaches don't even know there is a line, let alone when they've crossed it.

As I said, I'm not going to change anybody's mind. Just throwing in my $.02

Chuck

I can NOT believe that this thread has gone on for 4 pages!!! This ranks right up there with the "presence" vs "rules knowledge" debate...btw: does it matter if the gum is sugarless or not? "Cause my dentist tells me that the sugarless gum is better for my teeth...

Wait! We were talking about sugarless gum??? Well, now that's a completely different story....

Trident or that horrible sugar-free Bubblicious?

If anybody steps onto my court chewing that Bubbelicious crap - I will T their a## so fast their heads will spin!!

Bubbleicious will not be chewed in my game. Any other gum sure, but not Bubbleicious. Our interpreter specifically outlawed that kind of gum. Oh, and any cinnamon gum is also not allowed.

Z

Why no cinnamon gum?? - I love that stuff and it is absolutely impossible to buy in Australia <sob>

Becuase of it's additional acidity, our interpreter considers it more of a safety risk than other flavors. :-)

Z

Scottk_61, I do not know where you live because you have not answered that question yet, but I can tell you in no uncertain terms, that the OhioHSAA has never banned the chewing of gum.

To Mark,
In 1980 and 81, I called games in Ohio and gum as well as hard candy was banned.
Looking back through some old stuff, even back then Ohio emphasized the girls fingernails...which was years ahead of most states.
Maybe you weren't aruond then, I was in Southern Ohio then being a crossover official from another state.
There was also an emphasis back then on making the players keep their jerseys tucked in.

I don't know where you were in 80 and 81 but I know where I was.
The issue really stood out to me then, because I was relatively new to HS officiating and I didn't understand the rationale behind some of the rules at the time.
That is when I learned the phrase, "purpose and intent" in regard to rule development.

I kinda like Bubbleicious. :(



It's...well...BUBBLEICIOUS!!! :D

I liked the flavors, but the sugar-free variety was horrible

Dribble a little longer, dunk a little longer, stay in the paint a little longer.. longer with Big Red.

I have been a registered basketball official in Ohio since the 1971-72 school year and I can tell you in no uncertain terms, that the OhioHSAA does not ban players from chewing gum while playing basketball nor has it ever had such a ban in place in all of the years that I have been registered by the OhioHSAA. Anybody that told you in 1980 and 1981 that players could not chew gum in Ohio was wrong.

I have been a registered basketball official in Ohio since the 1971-72 school year and I can tell you in no uncertain terms, that the OhioHSAA does not ban players from chewing gum while playing basketball nor has it ever had such a ban in place in all of the years that I have been registered by the OhioHSAA. Anybody that told you in 1980 and 1981 that players could not chew gum in Ohio was wrong.
__________________
Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.


Ok, Mark
I was really in BFA and just decided to pick on Ohio.
Actually, it was a communist plot during the cold war.
I still dont' allow gum or hard candy and won't...feeling no pain for not allowing it and having great games.
Get over it, will ya?

Unbelievable
 

How is it possible that this thread has generated over 1130 views?!?!?! :confused: If only our rules discussions stayed this focused for 6 pages! ;)

Chuck

Re: Unbelievable
 

Basically,this has been a rules discussion-believe it or not.The question is whether there is a rule against a player chewing gum on the court.

Believable
 

Ist poster looked 64 times
2nd poster looked 63 times
3rd poster looked 62 times....

First you state that you were an OhioHSAA registered basketball official in 1980 and 1981 and that the OhioHSAA prohibited players from chewing gum while playing. Now you state that you really were not registered by the OhioHSAA in 1980 and 1981 because you apparently were not anywhere near Ohio at that time.

And now you expect others to respect your argument that the "Elastic Clause" (NFHS R2-S3) as well as NFHS R3-S7 gives you the authority to not allow a player to participate in a basketball game while chewing gum. I do not think so. You have lost any credibility that you might have had when you lied about being registered by the OhioHSAA in 1980 and 1981. I am sorry, but I know that you have a lot to learn about the rules of basketball and, more importantly, you have a tremendous amount to learn about ethics and professionalism.

You owe this Discussion Forum an apology.

And you owe the forum an apology for your arrogance.

First, he never said he was a registered official in Ohio. He stated he called some games in Ohio while living in a bordering state.

Second, his last post was obviously "tongue-in-cheek."

Third, did you call in every area of Ohio? Isn't it possible that some areas didn't allow gum? Of course it is. You don't know everything that goes on everywhere, even in Ohio.

You're so full of yourself sometimes.

Now, wanna talk about simultaneous personal fouls, Your Excellency?

M A R K ! ! ! !

RELAX, take a breath.........

Sorry to have overtaxed you brain with sarcasm.

Relax, breath, drop it because we are obviously never going to agree.
I believe you are within your view points and I know what I was told back then.
I know what other states have said, I know what I am going to do............
Breath........

1) To officiate in Ohio you must be registered with the OhioHSAA even if you live in a bordering state. Scott stated in his Oct. 24, 2002, 11:48pm, posting that he officiated in Ohio in 1980 and 1981. That implied he was registered by the OhioHSAA. After calling his bluff, he admitted in his Oct. 25, 2002, 11:04pm, posting that he did not officiate in Ohio. He told a lie in order to defend his position.

2) Who cares at this point if his response was tongue in cheek. He lied to support his position.

3) Since Dick Knox is your state's top basketball rules man, you should understand better that anybody, that there is only one set of NFHS rules and interpretations. OhioHSAA adheres to that policy. No local association can issue its own directive if it is in direct conflict with the rules. When a school from one area of Ohio plays at a school in another area of the state, the rules will be the same; no local association can impose an arbritary rule that is not in the rule book. And yes, over the years I have officiated H.S. games in the Northeast, Northwest, and Eastern Districts of the OhioHSAA as well have officiated with officials from every district in the state. And I belong to local officials association in both the NE and NW districts.

Do not speak for everyone.
 

I only want to take exception to one comment that you made. There might be only one interpretation based on what the NF thinks, but not necessarily what different associations or areas think. Someone that has officiated in Illinois and worked from the Mississippi River to Lake Michigan, that is not always true. There are very often times many rules that you have to modify or be careful calling. Especially those that are in an administrative category. And for you to make that comment really is incorrect. Now maybe you do not have that problem in Ohio, but in Illinois, we have over 700 IHSA Schools. From the city to the smallest of towns. All have different economic issues and area practices. So yes you will practice NF rules, but when a team has no number on the front of their jersey, you might not get a lot of support for calling a T on every player.

Peace

Isn't the purpose of the elastic clause to regulate things like gum, spandex, sansabelt slacks, rubber bands, hair scrunchies....

I enjoy the forum and learn a lot, but we sure get heated up about some weird things.

M
 

Mark, don't compound you confusion by insisting that I admitting lieing about anything.
I never, not once, check your message board, said I didn't work in Ohio.
I was registered, did officiate and call games in Ohio.
If you don't know what BFA is, sorry...it was a smart aleck response to something that really doesn't matter much at all.
I was a crossover official from Kentucky back then, and we did register with Ohio but not without difficulty as has happened when I lived in other state border areas.

You really need to take valium or something.......
Don't call anyone a liar, especially when you are having reading comprehension problems.
I have had way to much respect for you over the past years to let this get me p***ed at you.
You are wrong in this case, no big deal.
It doesn't change my attitude of who you are or what you are capable of.
LET IT GO, we are not going to agree but get your facts straight before you decide to go off on a tangent.

No more responses on the personal level will come from me.
If anyone wants to address the reasons why gum has been banned in areas that I was at or am at, I will gladly discuss them.

I was reffing a rec game today and A1 goes in for a dunk while chewing gum. While in the air, he blows a bubble and the G-forces and wind resistance cause it the gum to wrap around his neck. On his way down, the gum gets caught in the net and he gets decapitated. The coach of Team A called time-out to try to keep his headless player in the game, but I felt that since he had lost his head he should have to sit until the clock ran. Then I realized that it was cinnamon gum so I called two technical fouls. I used the elastic powers of being the referee to apply the fouls as indirects against the head coach and sent him packing.

Did I get a little too militant? :-)

Z

Z-man,
Long weekend?

mick

"Yes,Coach Knight,I realise that there are only 10 seconds left in the game and that you're down by 2--but your 3 best shooters are all chewing gum,and they will all have to leave the game immediately!"

Yup,I think that I'd pay to see some bozo try to call something like that!:D

WOW!!

<i> Z-man, Long weekend?</i>

No, actually I did three games today and they were all as smooth as butter. But I thought this thread had become way too serious and could use some sarcasm.

Z

Unfortunately, Z, you screwed this up. Being headless is simply one form of a concussion. So he doesn't have to sit if he can get a note signed by a doctor. :)

Chuck

So, ....
 

Which team, Team A or Team B, at that time, was ahead a head?

I don't think I like where this thread is heading..

That's a heads-up observation Dan. Move to the head of the class!

Well,you are the HEAD referee...

I can tell by the dirt on your knees.

Nah, I just work the bowl these days, I usually get one of the new guys to scrub down under it. Saves a lot of wear
and tear on the knees.

BTW, looks like this new topic is picking up a head of steam...

Looks like it may be "backing up".

I am way aHEAD of the game up here in Alaska......Gum freezes so it doesn't stick to the floor.

AK ref SE

Okay, I'll start....
 

Does your chewing gum lose it's flavor
on the bedpost over night?
If your mother says, "Don't chew it!",
Do you swallow it in spite?
....

Re: Okay, I'll start....
 

"When you eat your Smarties,do you eat the red ones last?....."

Hey,wait a dad-gummed minute!! Ain't nobody eating Smarties in MY game!! Them things are dangerous!!(See R2-3)


[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Oct 28th, 2002 at 12:02 PM]

Re: Unbelievable
 

Chuck, you call this focused?

:p

No - that's the problem with sugarless gum! If you had regular gum, this wouldn't have happened!

Re: Re: Unbelievable
 

Well, it was when I made that post, 500 views ago!!!

I'm allmost afraid to admit this, I have a bad habit that I aquired in collage. I chew copenhagen snuff, smokeless tobacco, and yes I've tried to quit. A few hours of basketball without my fix is difficult. I chew a non-sugarless gum just to get by. I can't really say no gum to players as I chomp away.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dan_ref

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Quote: ...I am a bald old geezer. Nothing wrong with that! :)

I'm there too Mark, maybe we should start a bald ole geezer sub chapter on this board.

Even though I had honestly never thought about it, I can see that gum as a choking hazard is a possibility. However,
I think that this would not be as likely as falling on the floor, hitting you head, and fracturing your skull while playing ball. Also, probably neither of these things would
be as likely as being involved in a car accident on the way to the gym. NOTHING worthwhile is 100% safe.