Tech For The Student Section??
 

A Boys Varsity game between the 2 teams predicted to win the conference, big crowd. Near the end of the second quarter the Home team is shooting free throws and when he makes the first the student section (for home team) yells "SUNK IT", sounds like "suck it", there was also a cow bell sound,from the band that is gathering to play at half. The Lead goes to the AD who was standing in the area, and asks if he heard that and the AD says yes I took care of it (thinking he was talking about the cow bell). Player makes second freethrow, student section yells "SUNK IT" and the lead turns and gives the student section a technical foul. The home Team still won, but I was wondering if any of you have ever come across a situation like this?? I have never seen this happen. A technical on the Home Team crowd for heckling there own shooter??:confused: I am still fairly new to Officiating and I am not sure what he used to justify his technical.

ooo. Imho.

I'll bet he gives a T to the crowd everytime they yell "bullshirt" after he makes a call too.

The crowd pays $2.00 - $5.00 to get in. I'll let them get their admission's worth as long as it doesn't become too personal/crude etc. I treat them differently than bench personnel. The crowd is game management's problem as much as possible. I personally don't have a problem with "sunk it" or "bull.....", "blind man walking" etc ........

I have far greater things to worry about than that.

You have just done your first game with "That Guy".

Fans do not exist.

*Congrats to my 100th post, 4 years in the making."

Sounds like the guy (1) worries too much about the crowd, (2) wants to show his authority and (3) is out of line.

I don't worry about the crowd as a whole. If it is one person or a small group I will inform game mangement that they need to handle the situation. When you as an official start interacting with the crowd, nothing good comes out of it IMHO.

How does "that guy" get games of this magnitude.

I've said it before and I'll say it again...THIS IS NOT GOLF. Fans are allowed to yell. If players can't hack it, they need to take up another sport, like golf. We have no authority to penalize a crowd for something like this.

Why don't you ask him? Part of learning as a new official is to inquire about things you don't understand. Please find out as we want to know :D

I did not work the game with him, I worked the JV prior to this game. I also thought he spent way too much time standing with the coaches during breaks in the action and during freethrows listening to thier complaints. There was times when he was talking with the one coach as trail while the Lead was administering free throws at the other end. (2 man game)

Phrase it like this: "RobbyinTN wants to know..."

You can learn from watching officials at the next level from you. Sometimes, you learn what not to do. (And, anyone who has watched me work can attest to that last point.)

Not entirely true.

NFHS 2-8-1 gives us such authority, but the NOTE attached to it is very important. The key word there is "discretion."

Was the OP's situation "interfer(ing) with the proper conduct of the game?" I certainly don't think so. That "sunk it" chant sounds fine, but no cowbell during game play. (Sorry, Mr. Walken.)

Alert game management, let them deal with it, and if the artificial noisemaking persists, THEN consider a T.

Not now but back then you bet...
 

Not entirely true. BV game last night, 3 man crew (as they all are in WA) and I'm working with the #1 official in our association. He told me that his first varsity game (30 years ago) was at this very school. On that day back in history there were two older women that struck up a conversation with him before the game started. At one point they commented on his skin and bones appearance and asked him when he would be back at that school. The next time he showed up they had a big bag of homemade cookies and an apple pie for him. Those were the days.

After they made the pie - they hung up the bushel basket for the game!!:D

I would agree that there are times that you can talk to someone in the crowd and have fun with it...we are human that last time I checked. It must be the right time and the right situation.

Steamed ??? Maybe ???
 

Not sure if this qualifies you to be an esteemed member? Of course I post 100 times in a week and I'm not an esteemed member. Wonder why?

JFlores has 100 straight postings without a picture? ;) :D

And on topic

Nice

Conscience Of My Image ...
 

Don't tempt me. I have a URL address, I know how to use it, and I'm not afraid to use it.

As I was coming up through the ranks I had a senior P award a missed FT to a V player for disconcertion from an H fan all the way at the other end of the court. Really? :confused: It was amazing!

Sure, we have the authority. But it's generally better not to use it.

To correct both of you, the official didn't penalize the crowd.

He penalized the team.

And while he CAN do it, he was WAY out of line.

Fan Etiquette Guidelines
 

Here's a Sportsmanship/Fan Etiquette listing I found in a HS Basketball program:

1. Welcome visitors to your gym & treat them as guests!
2. Do not "boo" opponents or officials!
3. No chanting in poor taste or distractions during opposing introductions!
4. Always displayappreciation for good performance, even if it is by the opposing team!
5. Excercise self control & permit only POSITIVE sportsmanlike behavior-Don't accept swearing or negative comments about players or coaches in your rooting section!
6. Make an effort to know the rules of the contest!
7. Be supportive to all & this will greatly enhance your enjoyment of the contest!
8. General rules: NO noisemakers, NO signs, NO stomping/pounding on the bleachers, NO negative activity during player introductions, NO booing of officials/opponents.

How many on this list do you approve? Of those you disapprove of, why?

#6 seems to be this abstract idea. They learn a couple and generally think they know all the little nuances the game can present.
What's considered a negative comment? Disagreeing with a call or play? Then fans either won't come to this gym (if this is enforced) or a lot of fans will start being removed by game admin if they enforce this. Which to me is a bit over kill, why can't someone disagree with something on the court?
What's so wrong about stomping on the bleachers? I've never perceived it as negative at all.

Negative comments (examples): "my grandma plays better defense", my dog can coach better than you"

Negative comments basically that belittle the coach/player/team.

The stomping/pounding on the bleachers I am thinking was put in as a maintenance request.

Like I stated originally, I found this on the back of a HS Basketball Program.

OT (kinda): There's a local hockey team that has the rule that you can't bang on the glass.

I think that all fans should be shot and not heard.

I also think that I don't give a crap what the fans do as long as they don't interfere with the game.

Game management sets up their own protocols. I remember one AD, in trying to flesh out an artificial noisemaker, telling a section of students to give it up or the whole section was leaving. His attitude toward noise when opponents were shooting FTs was that you shouldn't quash school spirit. Throwing stuff, shouting obscenities, and the like are instances when GM should get involved. Issuing a T based on crowd behavior is rarely a good idea.

+1

The crowd's behavior is a reflection of the school. If Game Admin chooses to tolerate it, it's on them. As long as their comments aren't racist or threatening, and don't interfere with my ability to officiate the game, I couldn't care less what they chant.

Actually you do but....
 

You do have authority to T up a team for unsportmanlike conduct of their fans. However, the rule book says you "may" enforce a Technical but strongly suggests otherwise. I've never T'd up a team because of their fans. I don't believe it helps things. I believe it will just make matters worse. Also, how do you know for sure it was the team's supporters? I would not put it past some kid to dress up like a fan for one team in hopes of getting a T called on that team. In my opinion it's best to NOT have rabitt ears and let game administration handle it as others have said.

I just found out, via additional investigating, that the Sportsmanship/Fan Etiquette listing I posted above is league mandated.

Here's how it is listed in the league's SOP Handbook:

Definition: "Sportsmanship is more than a series of behaviors - it is an attitude. It is based on honesty, fairness, and humanity toward others."

SPORTSMANSHIP/FAN ETIQUETTE
1. Welcome visitors to your gym and treat them as guests!
2. Do not "boo" opponents or officials!
3. No chanting in poor taste or distractions during opposing introductions and free throw situations!
4. Always display appreciation for good performance, even if it is by the opposing team!
5. Exercise self control and permit only POSITIVE sportsmanlike behavior - Don't accept swearing or negative comments about players or coaches in your rooting section!
6. Avoid stomping on the bleachers - This is very destructive!
7. Make an effort to know the rules of the contest!
8. Be supportive to all and this will greatly enhance your enjoyment of the contest!
9. Bands will refrain from inappropriate songs such as:
NaNaNaNa Hey Hey, Goodbye
Another One Bites The Dust
Hit The Road Jack
10. General rules: NO noisemakers, NO signs, NO stomping/pounding on bleachers, NO negative activity during player introductions, NO booing of officials/opponents.
11. No continuous standing in indoor events.

I find some of those points over the top.

Seriously, as long as there are no artificial noisemakers, no profane language, nothing derogatory towards opponents, then the fans have met my expectations for sportsmanship. Fans want to boo me as an official, fine by me. Fans boo an opponent, fine by me at appropriate moments.

The ones in red to me are the most important ones.

I agree that some of those listed are a bit over the top.

During one BV game earlier this year, I heard fans stomping on the bleachers during FTs & I requested that the PA announcer made the announcement about "No stomping on the bleachers". The Boys' JV Coach looks over & says "come on this is basketball & not golf, let them stomp on the bleachers!"

What else can be said in a situation like that except that it's mandated by the league?

I can see a bit of reasoning behind the no stomping on the bleachers though especially since the bleachers are wooden.

That the league is stupid?

Curious, does the NCAA/NJCAA have sportsmanship standards they hold the school/student body to separate (but during a contest) from the players and coaches?

I'm thinking maintenance costs & less chance of injuries by spectators.

Which is worse, no stomping on bleachers or no banging/slapping the glass (like a nearby hockey team)?

The other interesting question is that how can these be enforced if game management is not told about them or the AD says nothing?

I agree...I have never heard of this mandated by any league. I could maybe see maintenace but I kind of doubt that. If that were true, they would have that silly mandate in older gyms I've worked at. And no one is getting injured stomping on the bleachers.

That's (one reason) why they're stupid.

The etiquette is listed on the back of programs, however how many people actually read things in the programs other than rosters?

No PA Announcements are made unless asked to do so, & game management is limited (like said earlier) due to not knowing about these rules.

It is interesting though about the no signs. How often do you see signs during HS basketball games? (This is a WIAA Fan Conduct rule as well)

Some of the items listed are common sense, & other items (like others have said) are stupid.

I've encountered a lot of leagues that issue sportsmanship edicts like this in my career. I've never encountered one that really tried to enforce it except sporadically when problems were brought to the attention. Talk is cheap.

Friday night's GV game girls is at the line shooting first of two FT's w/ 16 secs left in the first half. I am L and bounce the ball to the shooter and the speakers come on and start playing loud music. CLANK. Music immediately goes off.

I retrieve the ball and look at the R (who is in the T) and go over to him and ask him if he's going to say something to the table. He tells me to play on w/o going to the table. I do.

In the locker room at half-time game mgt delivers our drinks and apologizes for the music. Says, he, not the table, flipped the switch to announce the step team at half time and the music came on by default. Oops.

Oh yeah, the FT shooter was from the home team!

If I remember correctly, the WIAA decided a few years ago to come down hard on this issue and we discussed it here at the time; coming to the same conclusion. It was/is draconian and over-the-top.

On the WIAA Website, the only references I can find is about the "Just Play Fair!" program.

Here's their listing for code of conduct:

http://www.wiaa.com/subcontent.aspx?SecID=512

Here's the Sportsmanship/Crowd Management Evaluation form from the WIAA:

http://www.wiaa.com/ConDocs/Con394/EvaluationForm.pdf

I remember that too...something about no booing at all? I don't remember a single person who was in favor of it.

Also, was it necessary to copy and paste all that chs? :confused:

Just wanted to show everyone that I found it was all :rolleyes::eek:

Ok changed it to where just links to what I found.