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2. As soon as the throw-in is complete, coach is up saying it can't be corrected. 3. B1 makes a 3. 4. A coach goes ballistic. Assuming the coach's comments come before the 3, there's an argument to be made that the ball becomes dead at that point; but are you really going to say you called a T on the coach for reminding you of the rule? You'd have to hit the whistle pretty quick to pull this off, IMO. I've got no real problem with the T if your gut tells you coach planned the whole thing. But if it took me until after the 3 was made to figure it out, I'd have to question how "sure" I was. |
New sitch:
A1 dribbling up the court. Just as he gets close to his three point line, A2 vents some frustration towards the official. Right after his comments towards the official's lineage, A1 spots up for a three and makes it. The official blows his whistle for the T while the shot is in flight. Count the bucket? |
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The throw-in situation described in post #6 is one in which a wrong team was also allowed to inbound the ball. And the RULING of case book play 6.4.1SitD tells us how to deal with those---> "Once the throw-in ends - it is too late to change anything." |
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Hopefully the official blows the whistle immediately. If the shot was clearly in flight (has left the shooter's hands) well before the whistle, then yes, I'm probably going to count the shot. Don't know of a rule that supports any other action.... |
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A1 calls a 60-second time-out in the backcourt. After the time-out ended, the official erroneously awards team B the ball for a sideline throw-in. RULING: This is not a correctable error situation; play shall continue. http://forum.officiating.com/basketb...s-archive.html Rules rulz! |
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Camron's point is that the TF "occurs" when the team purposefully takes a throwin to which they're not entitled. |
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Whether you want to call the T or not call the T in the case being discussed is OBVIOUSLY debatable and I've have to be absolutely sure before I did call a T. However, that is not the point being debated. The point being debates is that if a foul (T in this case) is called, the rules are quite clear that the ball is dead at the time of the act that draws the foul (6-7-7). Any reference to 6.4.1 is a distraction. All it says is you can't kill the ball and give the ball back to the other team to correct the throwin mistake....nothing more. It is silent about what happens if another infraction occurs and is called. This case is a red herring in the purest sense. Modified play: Team B is incorrectly given the ball for the throw in. B1 passes the ball in to B3. B2 attempts to set a screen for B3 but does so illegally, committing a foul on A2. B3 releases the shot just after B2 fouls A2. Having not anticipated the call, the official then blows the whistle for B3's illegal screen. Does the shot count? Yes or No? |
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I understand Cam's point, but the case play he referenced applies only to action immediately after a made basket, not after an intervening TO. The difference is when the ball becomes live. In the case play, the ball never became live after the made basket because it was never at the disposal of a player from B for a throw-in. The T is actually for A preventing the ball from being promptly made live per 10-1-5-b. By contrast, in the OP situation, the ball became live when handed to the player from A for the throw-in. It's an official's error and by rule can't be corrected after the throw-in ends. Bottom line is the officials screwed the pooch if they let A have the ball instead of B following the TO. This is not a correctable error according to the 2002-2003 interp cited by JR. This is why the officials should always get together in these situations (TO after made basket) and confirm who gets the ball and where they get it. In your new situation, timing is the issue. If the whistle for the T and the try occurred right on top of each other, then I can and would easily sell disallowing the try. But if there's a big delay between the try and the whistle, I can probably still sell it, but it's going to be a whole lot harder to do. That's why I said I hoped the whistle was immediate. There are times when a patient whistle is a good thing, but this isn't one of them. |
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You're right, it's a tough sell after the ball goes in. If I'm thinking that quickly, though, I'm whistling B1 for a tech for crossing the OOB plain during a throw-in and touching the ball. |
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Regarding whether to call a T in the situation being discussed, see my reply to Snaq above. |
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Administering official says "A ball", then B1 steps OOB & tries to take the ball for throw-in. I have no problem with an immediate T for this....... |
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