Home V playing against neighboring C-Squad
 

Went & watched a game last night where the Home GV was playing against a neighboring school's C-Squad.

Overall the game was closely contested with the score at the final being H: 40- V: 35.

Some questions from the observations:

What would you do if the timer failed to sound the warning horn 1 minute before game/end of halftime?

Would you call a jump ball whenever the defender ties up the ball yet lets go before the whistle?

What would you do if the timer started marking the fouls on the board before reporting them to the table?

1. Nothing.
2. No.
3. Nothing.

What is a C-squad?

Typically, it's the freshman games. Around here, the two terms are interchangeable.

Nothing. Where's the requirement for that?

If I judged it to be held, then it's held, even if the defender lets go before I blow the whistle.

Nothing.

The timer reports fouls to the table? :confused:

Girls Varsity plays against a freshman squad?

Not unusual when the Freshman squad is from a large school and the GV is a small school.

The varsity squad is from a school that cannot participate in postseason in the WIAA 1B Classification. The C-Squad was from a 1A Classification school. Basically it was an additional game for the C-Squad to meet their season limit.

The 2 teams will play again at the 1A School on the 20th, as several of our normal games against 1A Schools have no C-Squads. This way they can get in some games instead of sitting.

Warning horns are at 3:00 and :15 seconds.

I wouldn't call it unless it was on a try and the defender tied up the shooter

I wouldn't say a thing as long as the fouls are correct. How long do you wait before you put points up on the board even though they could still be canceled by BI or a PC foul? My guess is as soon as the ball is in the bucket you're pressing some buttons.

chseagle I have noticed that a lot of your questions are of a rather, how do i say it, nit picky, pointless nature. some of these decisions seem like they are very simple and you should be able to make without always asking. I could be out of line here but just something i noticed.

Concerning counting pts. before whistle/foul, I look for the "count the basket" signal before posting on the board, as I want to make sure the points do count.

no comment about the warning horn times? I thought that would be right up your alley!

+1
like

whatever the hell you wanna call it- well said

The only time I've heard of sounding the horn :15 secs. before the end is on TOs & replacements, not for pregame or halftime.

That would be a long period on the bench for the teams if the horn sounded 3 minutes before the game/halftime ended.

I thought you had a rules book? Read it. And, what you seem to think constable said, is not what he said.

And, no one said the teams need to be on the bench from the time the "three minute warning" sounded.

If it begins to create confusion as to bonus situations I will ask that they wait. If it's not creating a problem, then nothing.

He wasn't talking about on a foul so much as points scored when there is no immediate whistle.

You seem to be under the mistaken impression that players are required to go to their benches at the "warning horn." Not true. Also, there's no requirement for a horn at 1:00.

2-12-2, 2-12-4

Note 2-12-4 states to sound it 15 seconds before the expiration of any intermission.

The :15 second warning horn for intermissions is only between quarters, not before the game or end of halftime.

If the horn is to sound :15 secs. prior to the start of the game/3rd quarter, then every timer is guilty & it's not enforced.

2-12-2 is the timer notifying the scorer that they need to be at the table, however 9.95 times out of 10 the scorer is at the table.

No, it's not. Do you have a rule reference? Note I'm not asking how it's practiced in your area, I'm asking if you have a rule reference that tells you the :15 horn is only for quarters.

Just For The Consitution State ...
 

Connecticut Halftime Mechanics: Timer is instructed to set clock at nine minutes and to run it down. Notify both teams, and the officials, at the three minute mark. When the horn sounds after the nine minutes, set the clock for one minute, with a warning horn after forty-five seconds, and a final horn at the end of the one minute. At this time both teams should be ready to play.

We've been doing it this way for about 15-20 years.

The :15 horn I've only heard between quarters, not before the game or at end of halftime (was the same way when I was Boys' Basketball Manager 10+ years ago).

The only reference found is 2-12-4, however during halftime we sound the minute horn before expiration, not once have been told to sound the horn at :15, except for between quarters.

For Varsity games, the clock never runs down to :00.0 during pregame, as when the minute horn sounds the teams are at benches & introductions are started with the clock reset to 8:00.

Looks like I'll have to e-mail Cindy Adsit & ask what the state's interpretation is.

This sounds way easier than how doing things now.

Warning Horns ...
 

Don't bother:

2-12-4: Sound a warning signal 15 seconds before the expiration of an
intermission or a 60-second charged time-out and at 15 seconds of a 30-second
time-out, immediately after which the players shall prepare to be ready to resume
play, and signal again at the end of the intermission or time-out.

2-12-5: Sound a warning signal 15 seconds before the expiration of the 20
seconds (maximum) permitted for replacing a disqualified or injured player, or
for a player directed to leave the game.

What I am meaning is that we have not been directed to do a :15 horn before the game or 3rd quarter, only between the 1st/2nd & 3rd/4th quarters here.

Whenever, maybe not. But, it is not that unusual to have a ball become free after you put air in your whistle.

Then your timers are doing it wrong and should all be fired.

IOW We were never told to do it at halftime or pregame. It has never been mentioned to the table crew by the officials nor has it been enforced at state playoffs.

It's in the rule book though, and you supposedly follow the rule book to the letter, so you had better get with it and sound that horn at the :15 mark during halftime.

You have a rules book. Use it. Do it right at your games. Heck, it's even more important this year with the "major editorial change."

What do you think halftime is? I'd say it is an intermission.

It appears you've read most of the rule book, but why not go to a camp and learn to referee and apply the rules.

Right now my knee is wrecked thanks to last January.

As I stated before, the WIAA has not stated that a warning horn is to be sounded at :15 prior to end of pregame/halftime.

The WIAA has not stated that a warning horn sound :15 prior to game or 3rd quarter.

As I stated earlier, I will discuss this with local reps to see what local interp is.

It doesn't apply to pre-game, only to intermissions.

They don't have to state it -- it's in the book. If they don't want you to use it, they have to state "don't sound the warning horn ..."

And, please place your comments below the post you are quoting, not above it.

Bob,

Ironic thing is I've never even been told by the officials to do it. As I have stated before the officials have the final say.

The sounding of the warning horn :15 before end of halftime was not done even at Regionals.

I bet that if you do it, no official will say to not do it either.

I am hearing a lot of folks who will allow the clock operator to change the number of fouls on the scoreboard before the foul is actually reported. This is a bad habit. You must speak to the timer to correct this, otherwise you are setting yourself or your partner up into an embarrassing correctable error. Remember....Preventive Officiating!

what error are we setting ourselves up to? what shows on the scoreboard has no real relevance to the game. thats why we have a scorebook. the only book i need to be on is the one with my scorer, and they always know to tell me when we hit 6.

Preventative officiating is key but when I am reporting the foul I have much better things to pay attention to then looking to see whether or not the timer has put up a team foul before I've reported it.

Also, what correctable error? I agree with the earlier post- the scoreboard for team fouls is just a reference, not the official record. The book is. They let us know on 6 and 9 and we communicate it amongst our partner or partners.

deecee, in some situations the scoreboard can be of relevance depending on who is doing table operations. Would you trust an adult inputting information on the scoreboard over a child doing scorebook?

I just sent an e-mail to both the WIAA Executive over basketball & the WOA Executive Director asking what the state's interpretation of the rule is.

I'll run a test Tuesday night as I have games that night, just to see what happens.

NFHS rule 2-11-11 says we are supposed to trust the child doing scorebook for anything that is entered into the scorebook, including fouls, bonus free throws, etc. The scorebook is official. We trust the adult doing the scoreboard for timing purposes ONLY. That only thing that is official on the scoreboard is the time remaining.

Been that way forever under the rules.....

How does this set you up for a CE?

If there are 6 fouls, and you call another -- when you look, there will be 7, and you'll shoot the 1-1.

NOT putting the fouls up, could set you up for the CE -- if the 6 stays up there for too long (and the book doesn't tell you it was the 7th), you might administer a throw-in instead of shooting FTs

I sorta see the point. We had one of these timers last week. As I'm reporting a foul, I see 6 on the board on my way to the table. Now, I *know* we didn't have six before the foul, because I didn't signal such to my partners (and we always do that). So I pointed to the endline where we were going to have a throw-in knowing that there was a very small chance we missed a foul somewhere and would be shooting. And then the PA announcer said it was the sixth team foul.

I'd prefer the book, timer, and PA announcer wait and give us the courtesy of reporting the foul first before recording anything. We don't always get that and I'm not going to make a big deal out of it if we don't....

Hate to disappoint you, but no. The scorebook is official. If the two disagree, the last place I'm looking is the scoreboard.

once again you are completely wrong and off course. the scoreboard is for cosmetic purpose as far as the game is involved. im sure you will disagree, because that is what you do best when logic and reason is presented to you along with fact.

I was saying NOT always can the scorebook(s) be reliable due to who is doing them.

There can be instances where the scoreboard is more reliable due to an inexperienced scorer.

And I am telling you that if there is a discrepancy between the 2 and you or your partner don't know what the real answer should be, IT DOESNT MATTER WHO IS ON THE SCOREBOARD AND WHO IS ON THE BOOK, we go with the book.

This concept might be tough to get but it's the way it is, the way it has been, and the way it will be for the foreseeable future. If you think the book is incompetent then get someone else to do it, but for christ's sake don't disregard the book simply because you feel as though the clock operator is more reliable. If that's the case then switch the 2 and deal with a spotty clock operator.

If the scorer was so inept that I'd be inclined to trust the scoreboard instead, I'd have that scorer replaced before problems arose.

Deecee,

I'm talking from experience as both a scorer & a timer concerning reliability. I am speaking from experience as a member of the table crew, not as a floor official. Not always will there be other personnel available to do the scorebook due to the inability to remain neutral at the table, or able to follow through with the scorer's duties/responsibilities.

His point is simple; if the discrepancy between the two is as vast as you suggest, switch them. I have never, ever, seen a situation that would require that, though.

And I would use the V book long before I'd consider overriding the book with information from the scoreboard.

Rule 2-12-4
 

I just got a response back from Cindy Adsit concerning rule 2-12-4 & the state's interpretation.

The response was: "Yes, the warning horn should be sounded unless both teams are already on the floor ready to begin the second half."

As I told her in my response back, I have never seen or heard it being done here, so starting Tuesday will be implementing it.

Which also means notifying the Varsity timer of the rule & the state's interpretation of it.

Hence why it's important that both scorebooks be in constant communication throughout the game concerning who scored, the running score totals, & fouls. However that doesn't always happen even after persistent reminders.

No, I don't think it does.

What do you think the purpose of the rule is? That should tell you all you need to know to have it taken care of properly.

A interpretation of the rule which is not being followed must be corrected though, correct?

The Varsity timer just sounds the horn at 1:00 prior to the end of halftime, has never done the :15 warning horn (if both teams are not ready to play).

who gives a rats a$$. do your job as an official and get the teams out and ready to play.

It's On The Scoreboard ...
 

Agree. Last week, had a table crew tell us, after they failed to tell me that we were in the bonus, and then failed to tell my partner that a player had been charged with his fifth foul, that they didn't have to tell us, "because it was on the scoreboard".

My partner and I had a double whistle on a player control foul in the paint last week. I backed off and let him have the call. Before he was halfway to the table, the PA had it going "Offensive foul on number 32............."

I am always patient when posting fouls on the scoreboard, & will either hold up the "one & one" for fouls 7-9, "2" for 10th foul, & "5" when a player accumulates their 5th foul.

The scorer is, as part of duties/responsibilities, is supposed to:

NOTIFY THE NEARER OFFICIAL WHEN:
1. The bonus penalty is in effect for the 7th, 8th & 9th team foul in each half. The bonus display indicates a second free throw is awarded for all common fouls (other than player-control) if the first free throw is successful. The proper bonus panel, such as (H for home & V for visitor) shall be displayed after the penalty for the sixth team foul has been administered. Another
method is to activate a light or device nearest the basket of the team which is to receive the bonus.
2. The 10th team foul occurs each half. Thereafter, the bonus (2nd free throw) is awarded for a common foul (except player control) whether or not the first is successful.
3. Any player is charged with his or her 5th foul (personal or technical), the second technical foul is charged to any team member, bench personnel, directly to the head coach, or the 3rd technical foul is charged to the head coach.

Sounds like that table crew needs to be retrained as to their duties/responsibilities.

Deecee, again I am not a floor official, but part of table operations.

All nice and shiny like.

Round 2 of the C-Squad vs. Varsity is gonna be happening on Thursday night.

But this thread could have still died peacefully. It still can. Let it.

I'm sure it will be just as interesting this time.

Final score was: Home C 29, Guest V 24.

Last time the final score was: Home V 40, Guest C 35.

Home team had 22 fouls throughout the game, yet no one fouled out (one player had 4 fouls). Visiting team only had 12 fouls.

And today for lunch, I had smoked turkey on wheat bread with Miracle Whip.

With or without cheese? :D