Time
 

Watched a VB Game last night - clock issues right off the tip. About 30 seconds of play without the clock moving. When we asked the offical why he didn't take time off the clock he responded that refs can't take time off - just can add time. I thought that if we had definate knowledge - such as chopping time during the issue -we could adjust.

Thoughts...

Backcourt, 5 second and throw-in counts can all be used to take time off of the clock.

We can, but have to have definite knowledge, e.g. 10-second count, closely guarded count, etc. It seems the "can't take time off, on put on" is from a long time ago. Some of the vets with better memories than mine can either attest to that or not. (Indiana beat me to it)

5-10
ART. 1

The referee may correct an obvious mistake by the timer to start or stop the clock properly only when he/she has definite information relative to the time involved. The exact time observed by the official may be placed on the clock.

ART. 2

If the referee determines that the clock malfunctioned or was not started/stopped properly, or if the clock did not run, an official's count or other official information may be used to make a correction.

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It says nothing about only putting time on or off.

Three, Four, Shut The Door ...
 

Three seconds.

The bigger issue is why didn't any of the officials not glance at the clock to see if it was running or not?

The Rule Book can be a dangerous thing. :)

Agree.

Same type of situation, what if after a whistle the timer tells you the clock kept running after it should have. Say for example it should have stopped at 3:10 but it is at 3:00. Is the timer's word good enough for 'other information' to reset it to 3:10?

We always pregame clock management at every game at every level.

At three minutes, I'd take the timer's word on this.

At three seconds with the visitors trying to score in a close game, I would not.

I always tell this to the timers before the game - "If you forget to start the clock, we'll yell at you. If you forget to stop the clock, we won't say anything." :D

I didn't include 3 seconds because it may coincide with another count.

Hmmm, can we use crowd counts?

"well, coach, I know at least three seconds should have come off because your crowd was counting."

Shouldn't it also depend on the competence of the timer & if they look as if they know what they're doing?

Not always will the timer be the best source of information due to other things happening at the table.

Nah, if they tell me 10 seconds didn't elapse that should have when were at the 3 minute mark; that's good enough for me. I'm going to be far more careful, however, under 10 seconds. If I or my partner don't have direct personal information, I'm not making a change.

Frankly, this has little to nothing to do with my perception of the competence of the timer.