Admitting kicking a call

LepTalBldgs · #1 (**permalink**) Wed Oct 16, 2002, 08:05pm

I'll be ref'ing HS ball for the first time this year after doing Rec (middle school and younger) and Church ball for a few years. Those venues have been very relaxed and after a few weeks you start to develop a rapport with the players, fans and coaches. So far (knock on wood) I have not had any bad experiences.

My question is: Do you experienced refs admit to either the player or coach that you kicked a call? Certainly if the Howler Monkey (love that phrase) is howling you aren't going to say anything. But if, while the players are lining up for the foul shot, the non-offending (but penalized) player whispers to you something like "you kicked that call pretty bad huh?" with a smile on his face, would you say anything? Likewise if a coach with a smile and a whisper said the same thing, what is your response?

If the answer is "no, show no weakness", what would you say in response?

I appreciate the feedback since I will have to be more professional this year.

Oz Referee · #2 (**permalink**) Wed Oct 16, 2002, 08:30pm

I rarely say anything during a game, but will occasionally say something like "well I say such and such, maybe I kicked it?" Especially on out of bounds plays when it is difficult to determine who the ball cam off.

Generally though I will not admit to having missed a call. I believe that doing so only leaves you open to have players and coaches say (or think) well if they missed that one, what about this one?

JRutledge · #3 (**permalink**) Wed Oct 16, 2002, 09:01pm

I think it is great if it is an obvious call, but if it could go one way or another, keep your mouth shut. I think the key thing is not to be admitting too many calls you missed. If you do you will look like you do not know what you are doing.

Peace

mick · #4 (**permalink**) Wed Oct 16, 2002, 09:27pm

I can say "I kicked a call", but I prefer to say, "I may have kicked it".

Love is ... never having to say you're sorry.

mick · #5 (**permalink**) Wed Oct 16, 2002, 09:30pm

LeptalBldgs,
Welcome to the forum.
Have a good season.

ChuckElias · #6 (**permalink**) Wed Oct 16, 2002, 09:48pm

Todd (aka LepTalBldgs) has been lurking here for a while, b/c I received a couple emails from him! Glad to see you posting, dude. Have a great season.

Chuck

BktBallRef · #7 (**permalink**) Wed Oct 16, 2002, 10:33pm

If I ever did kick one,

,...

...I would own up to it if it was obvious. But only to a coach, probably not to a player. You don't gain any credibility by continuing to defend a call that everyone knows you missed.

zebraman · #8 (**permalink**) Wed Oct 16, 2002, 10:55pm

Like BktballRef, I can't comment because I've never missed one. Yeah right. :-)

I think a couple times last year I said something to a coach like, "I might have missed that one coach." Be careful though - if you've got a coach that's already harping, that might just give him/her some new material so I'd be pretty judicious about it.

The coaches I said it to have seen me officiate enough that I was comfortable that it would be appreciated.

Z

Tim Roden · #9 (**permalink**) Thu Oct 17, 2002, 01:03am

I'll admit to kicking a call after the game or privately during the game to the player or coach IF the call is not going to effect the game. Up 87 to 21 and you kick a call against A. You bet I'll own up to it. In a 32-32 game with five seconds left. I'll defend my call to my dying breath.

Dan_ref · #10 (**permalink**) Thu Oct 17, 2002, 09:29am

The thing that strikes me is you realize you've developed a rapport with the players & coaches. You should develop the same rapport in your HS games. Be human, be approachable, if you kick one say something like "You may be right". If it's something you know you got right but others might see differently say something like "In my judgement...". If you know you are right say so but don't be a jerk about it. I, for one, do not have a problem saying any of these things to a player or a coach *if spoken to politely*.

stripes · #11 (**permalink**) Thu Oct 17, 2002, 09:34am

Quote:

Originally posted by LepTalBldgs
My question is: Do you experienced refs admit to either the player or coach that you kicked a call? Certainly if the Howler Monkey (love that phrase) is howling you aren't going to say anything. But if, while the players are lining up for the foul shot, the non-offending (but penalized) player whispers to you something like "you kicked that call pretty bad huh?" with a smile on his face, would you say anything? Likewise if a coach with a smile and a whisper said the same thing, what is your response?

If the answer is "no, show no weakness", what would you say in response?

I appreciate the feedback since I will have to be more professional this year.

I think that when he is howling is the best time to admit it. Generally, the smarter coaches know that you kicked it, just like you do. If you respond to the coach with something like, "I missed that one, but it won't happen again," or "I'll be in a better position to see the whole play next time," or "You're right, I missed it." What else can he say. He thinks you missed it and you confirmed it and told him you'll do better next time. Of course you get a maximum of 1 of these per game. If it can be done quietly , as you suggest, that is the best scenario, but admitting mistakes has diffused many rough spots for me.

Be mindful that the less you say the better, coaches will turn your words against you at any time, but IMO, dealing with coaches is the hardest part of our job. Thise who are really good at managing games tend to be the ones who go the farthest in their officiating careers.

ChuckElias · #12 (**permalink**) Thu Oct 17, 2002, 10:07am

Quote:

Originally posted by stripes
I think that when he is howling is the best time to admit it. Generally, the smarter coaches know that you kicked it, just like you do.

The problem with that approach is that a coach who is a true "howler" is going to howl after every close call that goes against him/her. If you admit it when he howls, then he'll think he's got a legitimate beef the next time he howls.

If, on the other hand, the coach is generally well-behaved then when he blows his top over a truly bad call, you might give him some slack and say, "Yeah, it won't happen again."

After going back and reading your post, Stripes, that was really all you were trying to say, wasn't it? Sometimes my brain doesn't kick into gear quite soon enough. Sorry.

Chuck

[Edited by ChuckElias on Oct 17th, 2002 at 10:33 AM]

stripes · #13 (**permalink**) Thu Oct 17, 2002, 10:27am

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ChuckElias

Quote:

Originally posted by stripes

Quote:

I think that when he is howling is the best time to admit it. Generally, the smarter coaches know that you kicked it, just like you do.

The problem with that approach is that a coach who is a true "howler" is going to howl after every close call that goes against him/her. If you admit it when he howls, then he'll think he's got a legitimate beef the next time he howls.

If, on the other hand, the coach is generally well-behaved then when he blows his top over a truly bad call, you might give him some slack and say, "Yeah, it won't happen again."

After going back and reading your post, Stripes, that was really all you were trying to say, wasn't it? Sometimes my brain doesn't kick into gear quite soon enough. Sorry.

Chuck

That is what I am trying to say. The guy who yells all of the time regardless of hwat happens will never, ever get a response like this from me. It is opening the door for bigger problems later in the game. I guess my term "smarter coaches" was trying to imply that. Sorry for the confusion.

ChuckElias · #14 (**permalink**) Thu Oct 17, 2002, 10:31am

Quote:

Originally posted by stripes
Sorry for the confusion.

No confusion, stripes. Just my bad

Chuck

[Edited by ChuckElias on Oct 17th, 2002 at 10:33 AM]

stripes · #15 (**permalink**) Thu Oct 17, 2002, 11:19am

Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias

No confusion, stripes. Just my bad

Chuck

[Edited by ChuckElias on Oct 17th, 2002 at 10:33 AM]

You know how it is...you have a thought and can't quite get it written as clearly and consisely as it appears in your mind. Happens to me all of the time.