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-   -   NCAA Record broken (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/60225-ncaa-record-broken.html)

Adam Wed Dec 22, 2010 09:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap (Post 709536)
Dangit, I lost that quote.

BillyMac Wed Dec 22, 2010 09:56pm
Hey, I'm Not Dead Yet ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee (Post 709477)
In the immortal words of the late and great philosopher, BillyMac, "I'm mad as hell and I'm just not going to take this anymore."
When I got up this morning, I went out to the paper box, and got my morning paper. I opened up the paper, like I do every morning, and saw that my name was not listed in the obituaries. Then I knew for sure, that it was going to be a great day.

Jurassic Referee Thu Dec 23, 2010 07:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BBrules (Post 709519)
This is correct - the Wayland Baptist wins were about 20 yrs prior to the NCAA. You are also correct that they should receive the recognition of having won the most consecutive basketball games. That is a basic question easily answered - just look at the numbers. The same with the basic question of what NCAA team has won the most consecutive games. UConn - just look at the numbers. Last time I checked 89 was more than 88. The problem we are encountering now is that too many are trying to answer a basic, tier 1 question with a second tier answer. A second tier question would be: do they deserve the acclaim bestowed on Wooden's team; did they get it honestly; are the courts the same; is the ball the same, etc. Those are secondary questions that are legitimate and, I'm sure, will be analyzed and debated for some time to come. My initial statement was based on a basic question as stated above. It is still correct - UConn. What college basketball team has won the most consecutive games? The Flying Queens of Wayland B. Do they deserve the same acclaim as UCLA, or UConn for that matter? That's a second level question. I don't know what college level WB plays on. You said they play on "the major college level". I won't dispute that. I just don't remember them. Did they play on an NCAA D1 level? These address second level questions. They don't affect the basic question.
I remember them. They played D1 under the AAU banner, same as all major college womens basketball teams did at that time. They hold the D1 womens basketball record for consecutive wins, not UConn. Last time I looked, 131 was more than 89.

Hell, in the 40's and early 50's the NIT tournament mens champion was usually recognized as the national champion, not the NCAA tournament champion. The NCAA tournament was considered second-tier to the NIT.

BBrules Thu Dec 23, 2010 11:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee (Post 709621)
I remember them. They played D1 under the AAU banner, same as all major college womens basketball teams did at that time. They hold the D1 womens basketball record for consecutive wins, not UConn. Last time I looked, 131 was more than 89.
Exactly. It also means that UCLA is 3rd on the list of the most consecutive wins by a college basketball team. I must admit that it is hard for me to believe that Wayland could be classified as a D1 school with a student population of about 500. Of course, I guess you could be considered "D1" if the AAU had only 1 "D", even though I don't think AAU had any "D's" back then.

Adam Thu Dec 23, 2010 11:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BBrules (Post 709699)
Exactly. It also means that UCLA is 3rd on the list of the most consecutive wins by a college basketball team. I must admit that it is hard for me to believe that Wayland could be classified as a D1 school with a student population of about 500. Of course, I guess you could be considered "D1" if the AAU had only 1 "D", even though I don't think AAU had any "D's" back then.
I ask again: where is this single record documented at the NCAA? They're separate records.

M&M Guy Thu Dec 23, 2010 01:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 709510)
If parity in womens' ball today was equal to the parity of mens' ball in the 70s, I'd consider this streak as equivalent. But it's not.
Is the parity among golfers the same today as it was when Jack and Arnie played?

Is the parity among baseball teams the same today as it was when the Babe played?

My point is you may be right in saying things were/are different between the 2 streaks, but almost all of the same arguments can be used when comparing stats in any sport. Did Barry Bonds, Hank Aaron and Babe Ruth all play against comparable competition? Were the equipment and fields exactly the same? Were the pitchers each faced of equal caliber? If not, then how can you say they all belong on the same career home run list, because there were different circumstances involving each player. (And I'm not even bringing steriods into the discussion.)

It's still a college basketball win streak. How each of us qualifies it after that is where we take turns hitting that poor horse...

M&M Guy Thu Dec 23, 2010 01:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 709703)
I ask again: where is this single record documented at the NCAA? They're separate records.
I am not 100% certain, but I believe women's college basketball was under a different umbrella before becoming an NCAA-sponsored sport sometime in the early '80's. That may explain why the Wayland team isn't listed under NCAA stats, because it wasn't an NCAA team.

Adam Thu Dec 23, 2010 01:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by M&M Guy (Post 709740)
Is the parity among golfers the same today as it was when Jack and Arnie played?

Is the parity among baseball teams the same today as it was when the Babe played?

My point is you may be right in saying things were/are different between the 2 streaks, but almost all of the same arguments can be used when comparing stats in any sport. Did Barry Bonds, Hank Aaron and Babe Ruth all play against comparable competition? Were the equipment and fields exactly the same? Were the pitchers each faced of equal caliber? If not, then how can you say they all belong on the same career home run list, because there were different circumstances involving each player. (And I'm not even bringing steriods into the discussion.)

It's still a college basketball win streak. How each of us qualifies it after that is where we take turns hitting that poor horse...

And those arguments are made repeatedly; but the thing Hank has in common with Barry is they were each playing against the best in the world at their sport. They played the same sport.

If the UConn women want to be compared to UCLA, they should be playing against the men. They could start with playing the intramural champion at UConn.

Comparing respective streaks is ok, but they aren't even close to the record for consecutive victories by an NCAA Division I team. Seems to me the applicable numbers were/are 70 (the previous DI Women record) and 137 (Miami Men's Tennis Team).

Adam Thu Dec 23, 2010 01:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by M&M Guy (Post 709743)
I am not 100% certain, but I believe women's college basketball was under a different umbrella before becoming an NCAA-sponsored sport sometime in the early '80's. That may explain why the Wayland team isn't listed under NCAA stats, because it wasn't an NCAA team.
All true, but not what I was asking. BBallRules seems to be basing his argument on the fact that the NCAA considers this a single record (most division 1 basketball wins in a row), but I can't find that stat on their website. They separate everything.

BBrules Thu Dec 23, 2010 03:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 709747)
All true, but not what I was asking. BBallRules seems to be basing his argument on the fact that the NCAA considers this a single record (most division 1 basketball wins in a row), but I can't find that stat on their website. They separate everything.
Actually my argument is not solely from the fact that the NCAA considers this a single record, although they sure seem to with this headline from their website:
UConn eclipses UCLA with 89th winSubheadline: Moore's career-high 41 leads three Huskies in double figures
They didn't seem to split anything.
My argument is one from logic and is really answering the basic question: What NCAA basketball team has the most consecutive wins? There can only be one with "the most". That would be UConn without adding any additional qualifiers. Wayland Baptist was not NCAA. They were AAU. Whether the UConn record should be accorded the same acclaim as the men is a secondary question that can encompass all the other minutia.

Adam Thu Dec 23, 2010 03:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BBrules (Post 709789)
Actually my argument is not solely from the fact that the NCAA considers this a single record, although they sure seem to with this headline from their website:
UConn eclipses UCLA with 89th winSubheadline: Moore's career-high 41 leads three Huskies in double figures
They didn't seem to split anything.
My argument is one from logic and is really answering the basic question: What NCAA basketball team has the most consecutive wins? There can only be one with "the most". That would be UConn without adding any additional qualifiers. Wayland Baptist was not NCAA. They were AAU. Whether the UConn record should be accorded the same acclaim as the men is a secondary question that can encompass all the other minutia.
You're right, it's even weaker than that. You've been quoting headlines that are obviously designed to trumpet the occasion. Headlines aren't evidence. I looked through the NCAA records that they post on their website, and all the apparently official records are separated.

Your asking a question many of us are saying is irrelevant. As I stated, the relevant numbers are either within their category or the NCAA as a whole. They've already passed 70, but 137 (the highest record for NCAA Division 1 consecutive team wins) is a ways away. Will 110 (when they pass the volleyball record) get the same hype as 89 did? I doubt it; because they want to have their record equated with Wooden's.

Jurassic Referee Thu Dec 23, 2010 03:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by M&M Guy (Post 709743)
I am not 100% certain, but I believe women's college basketball was under a different umbrella before becoming an NCAA-sponsored sport sometime in the early '80's. That may explain why the Wayland team isn't listed under NCAA stats, because it wasn't an NCAA team.
You are wise beyond your years. The AAU was responsible for womens college basketball until 1971 and the the AIAW (Association For Intercollegiate Athletics For Women) took over until 1982. 1982 was the first year that the NCAA had any responsibility or association with womens basketball at all. And now the NCAA is ignoring everything that happened before 1982 while trying to compare a record set by the mens basketball D1 team years before their womens basketball division even existed.

If it didn't happen before 1982, it doesn't exist.

The NCAA is trying to claim the record for consecutive wins by a womens D1 basketball team is 89 while completely ignoring all records of the same sport made or set before 1982. Well, I'm mad as hell and I'm just not going to take this anymore.

Womens basketball is my life.

Camron Rust Thu Dec 23, 2010 04:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BBrules (Post 709789)
My argument is one from logic and is really answering the basic question: What NCAA basketball team has the most consecutive wins? There can only be one with "the most". That would be UConn without adding any additional qualifiers. Wayland Baptist was not NCAA. They were AAU. Whether the UConn record should be accorded the same acclaim as the men is a secondary question that can encompass all the other minutia.
If you're going to eliminate the men/women qualifier from the question, why not eliminate the NCAA qualifier too? Or even the basketball qualifier?

You could simply say, "What team has the most wins?" (any sport, any organization, any gender).

BillyMac Thu Dec 23, 2010 05:17pm
Only $14.95, For A Limited Time, And A Limited Time Only ..
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee (Post 709458)
Wimmens basketball is my life.
What size would you prefer?

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Terrance "TJ" Fri Dec 24, 2010 03:21am
Nfc
 
I was going to comment, state my position and other such information and opinion. But I can't deal with the under lying subtle and/or b;atant sexiam in this post. So I'll leave you all to this discussion.


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