A first I did not want - Page 2

RookieDude · #16 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 21, 2010, 03:55pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welpe

Dribbler drives in from outside the three point arc on my side, secondary defender slips into the paint, and stays rock still. Dribbler gathers, takes a step and levels the defender.

Was this 2 whistle or 3 whistle?...

secondary defender?...in L's PCA?...

usually L's call in my pre-games.

Welpe · #17 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 21, 2010, 04:02pm

Two whistle...would love to have three in a freshman game but we still have many districts where they only work two for varsity.

I'm good pre-gaming it either way really...assuming we DO pre-game it, which was one take away I have from this situation.

Generally how I was trained was that on this type of play for two whistle, the trail takes it if the play starts in his/her PCA (with no reference to primary/secondary defender).

Adam · #18 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 21, 2010, 04:03pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welpe

Two whistle...would love to have three in a freshman game but we still have many districts where they only work two for varsity.

I'm good pre-gaming it either way really...assuming we DO pre-game it, which was one take away I have from this situation.

Generally how I was trained was that on this type of play for two whistle, the trail takes it if the play starts in his/her PCA (with no reference to primary/secondary defender).

Was the lead calling across the lane? Or had he crossed over?

Welpe · #19 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 21, 2010, 04:05pm

Across the lane. If this were three whistle mechanics, the crash would've happened in the C's primary (in relation to the position of the lead).

Adam · #20 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 21, 2010, 04:06pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welpe

Across the lane. If this were three whistle mechanics, the crash would've happened in the C's primary.

Actually, hopefully the L would have crossed over. This play is a perfect example of the benefits of going ball side in 2 whistle, too.

Welpe · #21 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 21, 2010, 04:11pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Actually, hopefully the L would have crossed over. This play is a perfect example of the benefits of going ball side in 2 whistle, too.

Speaking three whistle, true hopefully the lead would have rotated over. I was speaking as if he had not. Essentially what I was trying to say was that the crash happened in the paint closer to me than him (not that it matters in 2 whistle since the entire paint is his).

Good point about going ballside in this situation. I do not remember exactly but I'm under the impression this play happened pretty soon after Team A got the ball into the front court (both teams were pressing quite a bit).

RookieDude · #22 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 21, 2010, 04:18pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welpe

Two whistle...would love to have three in a freshman game but we still have many districts where they only work two for varsity.

I'm good pre-gaming it either way really...assuming we DO pre-game it, which was one take away I have from this situation.

Generally how I was trained was that on this type of play for two whistle, the trail takes it if the play starts in his/her PCA (with no reference to primary/secondary defender).

Copy...

We are fortunate enough here, that we have 3 whistle for all games above MS.

Someone mentioned (I think Bob) that we have a tendency to want to take this, if L, on these types of calls.

I agree...we use to say, "If the ball is coming TOWARDS you...it's your call."

We have evolved, as officials, but maybe this is still rattling around in some of our heads.

Welpe · #23 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 21, 2010, 04:22pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by RookieDude

We are fortunate enough here, that we have 3 whistle for all games above MS.

That must be nice. I'd be willing to work some 3 whistle at the subvarsity for a reduced fee just for the experience.

Cobra · #24 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 21, 2010, 06:55pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Ugh, your partner also has the rule wrong.

Not really. The guard could be moving his shoulders forward when the contact occurred.

Adam · #25 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 21, 2010, 07:40pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cobra

Not really. The guard could be moving his shoulders forward when the contact occurred.

Yep, based on the statement he was "turning his shoulders" at contact, one shoulder was likely moving towards the dribbler. Still a PC foul.

Cobra · #26 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 21, 2010, 11:06pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Yep, based on the statement he was "turning his shoulders" at contact, one shoulder was likely moving towards the dribbler. Still a PC foul.

If the guard is moving towards the dribbler when contact occurs then the guard is responsible for the contact and it would not be a PC foul.

Camron Rust · #27 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 21, 2010, 11:29pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cobra

If the guard is moving towards the dribbler when contact occurs then the guard is responsible for the contact and it would not be a PC foul.

Most of the time, it would be, but not necessarily.

I'm not calling a block on a guard who has LGP but twitches forward a small amount just before a major collision.

BktBallRef · #28 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 21, 2010, 11:39pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welpe

Tony, I know I did raise my fist but it was probably only long enough to roll into the PC foul signal. Good food for thought, thanks.

Good. Just use it to slow yourself long enough to look.

Wonder if your partner raised his fist.

Adam · #29 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 21, 2010, 11:56pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cobra

If the guard is moving towards the dribbler when contact occurs then the guard is responsible for the contact and it would not be a PC foul.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Most of the time, it would be, but not necessarily.

I'm not calling a block on a guard who has LGP but twitches forward a small amount just before a major collision.

Twice today; thanks Camron.