Quite the oddness
 

Had something interesting happen today.

Girls varsity game. About 5 minutes left in the 2nd quarter. "Visiting" team is up about 12 or 14 points. They are pressing, albeit a pretty weak press. First line of defense really is set at the top of the key and they are running a trap. "Home" team can't handle it very well though and is getting pretty frustrated with it. After V scores, Home HEad Coach stands up and tells his player throwing the ball in to throw it straight to the other team, which she does, and it results in an easy layup. I didn't catch on right away, but then he did it again. She complies again.

How would you handle this situation? I'll fill in the rest of the details after a little discussion.

You have nothing.

MTD, Sr.

Given that the coach is instructing them to do so (not not that the other team is stealing the ball) one team has clearly decided to no longer play the game and is basically surrendering. After 3-4 times, I might have a brief word with the home coach regarding ending the game. I might even just call it off without consulting the coach. That is not basketball and he's making a mockery of the game.

+1

I would probably warn first.

Rule 5-4-1:
"The referee shall forfeit the game if a team refuses to play after
being instructed to do so by any official. The referee may also forfeit a game if
any player, team member, bench personnel or coach fails to comply with any
technical-foul penalty, or repeatedly commits technical-foul infractions or other
acts which make a travesty of the game. If the team to which the game is forfeited
is ahead, the score at the time of forfeiture shall stand. If this team is not ahead,
the score shall be recorded as 2-0 in its favor."

Pick Me, Pick Me!
 

What was the attitude/reaction of the players and parents of the H Team while this was going on? Were they going nuts? Parents yelling? Booing? Anything at all? Just curious.

Inquiring minds want to know?

This actually happened in an NBA All-Star game back in the '80s. I won't remember it exactly right, but I think the West was up big in the last minute of the game and an East player stole the ball and made a big dunk. So Magic (I think) took the ball out of bounds and passed it right back to the East player, who again dunked it. And Magic again threw the throw-in right to the East player. Wish I could remember it more exactly. . .

Here's what we did
 

OK, first off, I forgot to mention the reason I called them "Home" and "Visiting" is because it was a preseason tourney and neither school involved was the host school.

To continue the story, here's how it played out:

After the second occurrence, V was fouled going up for a shot and my partner called the foul from the lead position. He headed up to report the foul and I headed down to administer the FTs. As I was heading down to the baseline, I noticed the clock was still running. I went over to the table to correct the clock, and after doing so, stopped to discuss it briefly with my partner. THis is his first year working varsity games. I explained what I saw, and said that if it happened again I would warn the coach, and then T if he continued beyond that. I went down to administer the FTs and my partner remained as the trail, table side.

After the 2nd FT, the ball was tipped out on the sideline on my side with V retaining possession, throwin coming in around the 3 point line extended on the sideline, forcing a switch.

As my partner headed to the baseline, he stopped to talk to the coach. I could tell that he was warning the coach about this, and the conversation lasted about 30 seconds. I got the ball back in play, and ended up calling a foul on a jump shot resulting in 2 FTs for the visitors. This puts me back table side. After the 2nd free throw, V sets up for their press again, and as Home team throws the ball in, Home HC turns to the V bench, calls the V HC by name, and asks, "How many points do you want?" WHACK!!

I call the T and tell the coach he's not going to talk to the opposing bench like that. We shoot the FTs and the the half plays out. Halftime score is 25-8.

Coach approaches us as we're leaving the court to defend his actions regarding instructing his players to throw it in to the other team. I told him that he was instructing his team not to play, and I was not going to allow that just because he had a beef with the other coach continuing to press. I let him know that I felt he was making a travesty of the game.

I pulled out my rulebook at halftime and looked up the travesty paragraph as has been quoted. I wasn't ready to call a forfeit. What I was willing to do was dump the coach and give an assistant an opportunity to let the girls play ball before callign a forfeit.

The second half was pretty uneventful. V came out with no full court press, and ended up winning by about 30.

As I was entering the gym to watch some of the next game, I saw this coach, and he approached me and said he'd like to talk to me before I left. There was plenty of time, so we found a place to sit down and talk. We had a pretty productive 15 minute discussion. He still didn't think he was wrong in any way. He felt that any team that was "in control" shouldn't be pressing like they were. I told him that was up to the other coach to decide when he wanted to call off the dogs. I certainly wasn't going to tell him he had to call off the dogs early in the 2nd quarter with only a 12 point lead.

To answer a couple of other questions. There was no real visible crowd reaction to any of this. In our postgame discussion, he said that he had several parents who supported his decision, and "they know what they're talking about, because we are a 'basketball town.' " I reminded him that for MANY years, the school he was coaching at had been a state powerhouse at their level, and had often been on the giving end of these full court press, run up the score kind of games. His response to that was, "That was a different coach, not me," and I said if you want to claim "basketball town" then you have to accept all that comes with it. Again, it was a civil, productive conversation, never got heated in any way.

As the teams came out for the second half, the V player making the throwin apologized to my partner for the behavior of her coach.

"Quando omni flunkus moritati"
 

One of our finer camp clinicians is quoted as saying, "It's not up to us who wins or loses the game, just so they do so quickly."

"Travesty of the game" issues aside, sounds like either the game or the situation would bring things to a resolution quickly and uneventfully. Either the game would end or the pressing coach would finally give in and lay off. Either way, your role as the arbiter of the game may prompt you to just roll with the flow and let things play out by doing nothing.

+1
What next you tell a team to press when you think they should? Make them sit a person or sub in for a player? What if the coach was down and began a stall? Or was up by 1 in the 3rd and stalled? Or on the other hand, the team is up big and still presses a clearly inferior team? What about a team running up the score? Those could all be called "making a travesty of the game"
Let the coach do thier thing and let the AD deal with them.

You're kidding. Right?

There is no part of the "game" that involves repeatedly giving the other team possession because you're pissed.

Let something like this keep going and you're going to have a circus on your hands and probably much worse.

And what part of the game is it to run up the score?
What part of the game is there to holding the ball when you are behind?
In the first you are going to have a zoo on your hands if not more so. A team could be getting revenge from a perceived slight before or even in a different sport.
And finally, where does it say that a team CAN'T purposefully give the ball to the other team? Both coaches obviously have problems but I am not sure how any of it affects the officiating duties.

I'm having deja vu.

I've heard stories of a team purposely giving the ball to the opponents for exact reasons such as this. In every case, the team pressing backed off. Never have I heard an official getting involved.

I'd let this one police itself. This is not a travesty; it's merely annoying, if anything.

travesty: A false, absurd, or distorted representation of something

While some of your examples may be demonstrations of questionable strategy or sportsmanship, none is entirely contrary to the nature of the game like the situation in the OP.

JAR That is fine. But a case could be made that running up a score is an absurd representation of the game. It definetly gives a distorted representation of the game. What about the team who is down big, but refuses to initiate any offense? That is absurd.
Passing to the other team on purpose is bad strategy as well.

Still not a good comparison. It is not uncommon for a coach to have his team play the same way all the time, regardless of the score.

Passing to the other team isn't even bad strategy; it's applied sarcasm.

A team that's down and stalling could be trying to keep the score low so they have a chance at the end.
A team that's up big and pressing could have valid reasons for doing so; respect for their opponent could be among them.

That said, I still don't think I'd do anything unless it continued past more than a handful of times. At that point, I'd ask the coach if he'd just like to forfeit.

I have a warning, not a T, and I certainly don't have a conversation with him in a secluded spot.

Scoring IS what a team is supposed to do. Continuing to score is generally expected.

Being down big and holding the ball could be an attempt at a secondary goal of holding their opponents to under a certain number of points.


Deliberately turning the ball over has no valid purpose.

+1

Pressing with a big lead and running up the score is a coach's decision. Neither has got anything to do with us. Whether we like it or not, it's part of the game and we have to deal with the fallout. No matter what, the teams are still expected to play. If there's any complaints, let the league or governing body deal with it.

Deliberately giving the ball to the opposing team is not an accepted part of the game though. Giving the other team the ball is not playing the game; it's making a farce out of the game.

I'd warn and then forfeit.

Your first and second point sort of contradict each other. If you are SUPPOSED to score then why stall? In fact, if you pass the ball to the other team then THEY are scoring, so it falls under your first point. Giving the ball to the other team CAN serve a purpose. It could embarass the pressing coach and thus they called the press off. Why isn't that a valid reason? Who knows, the coach who was pressing may get fed up and take THEIR team off the floor forfiet? Far fetched maybe, but who is to say?
To JUR's point, if pressing is a coaches decision, the OP said that the coach wanted his team to pass to the other team. THAT is a coach's decision as well. I still don't see much of a difference between what that coach did and coaches who deliberately press clearly inferior teams. The pressing coach is making a travesty of the game similar to the OP coach, just in a different way and one we see too often, IMO. It the coach wants to forfiet, they can call a TO and/or take their team off the floor, they don't need any help from me.

Question: How many times would you permit this before stepping in?

How much time is left in the game?
I do agree that it is implied/applied sarcasm btw. But I don't have much a problem with it. The rule book talks about sportsmanship, not sarcasm. If you can't tell, I have more of a problem with coaches who run up the score and take advantage of teams that are less talented. Real Life Ex: We have a team that has the anti UConn streak - They have lost 83 in a row. Last year a team played them and they were told to keep them under 10 and score over 100 for the game or else they would run. Really? When we play them we use it as a scrimmage and try different players at different positions. We still win by 40 odd points, but we don't press and play our starters about 1 and 1/2 quarters.
I totally would understand if this coach did the same thing as the coach in the OP. It would make the paper and the pressing coach would be excoriated in the local media.

Does it matter? In the OP, it's the 2nd quarter with a 10-12 point lead. Way too early to get pi$$y about a press.

It's the same thing as forfeiting, IMO. And it teaches the players the same lesson as walking off.

SNAQ daddy- I meant it as I will let it go for as much time is left in the game. In this case, when half time arrived I would head over to the table and see if the teams were going to come out in the second half. It if was in the second half I would do the same at the end of the 3rd. I am just not convinced that it is my job to suspend/forfeit the game in this case. Both teams have plenty of players and there are no safety concerns so I'd let em play and let the powers that be take care of those two coaches.
IMO, it is needless inserting ourselves where we are not needed.

Fair enough; we'd handle it differently. Once it became obvious he's not stopping, I'm asking if he wants to forfeit. I'm sorry, but it's just not comparable to the other issues mentioned so far.

Once a coach gets to this point, though, it's going to escalate quickly IMO.

And if I'm the other coach and he pulled that on me with a 12 point lead in the 2nd quarter, I'll keep scoring as long as he's giving me the ball. You can also bet I'd press longer, too.

I agree that it is an odd thing to do at that point in the game and with that point differential. A 12 pt differential can evaporate quickly, especially, IMO Girls BB. A 20 pt differential seems to be a safe number, based on experience. If you are under 6 min in the 4th quarter up 20 and pressing.....you might be a moron HA. I kid I kid, not really, ok I kid I kid!

Back in Iowa, I worked a frosh girls game between a perennial powerhouse and a bottom dweller. Powerhouse pulled their press after three or four possessions once it became obvious the other team just couldn't handle it at all. They didn't need it, but it was there if they ended up needing it later.

See we agree on more than we disagree on!! (I hope it won't bring your board standing down!;))
BTW the two worst things to happen in HS BB IMO, were the elimination of Single Class basketball in my home state of Indiana and the elimination of 6 v 6 girls basketball in Iowa.

My board standing is shaky at best anyway. I'm fine. :D

Especially since I disagree with your last point. One year after I graduated high school, they played the last 6 player tournament in Des Moines. I don't think anyone missed it within about 5 years.

Never shoulda put on that hat.

I was told all the cameras had been confiscated.

Not at all. It was assumed you'd understand that attempting to PREVENT the other team from scoring is also expected. Stalling does exactly that.

I Know That We're Getting Killed, But Please Press Us ...
 

During my dark days as a middle school basketball coach, I actually asked a "Powerhouse" coach to put his press back on for a few minutes in the second half so that we could work on our press break. He did. We still had trouble breaking the press, and he took it off.

Also, I informed both the parents, and the officials, about my request

Way back when I was a freshman in HS we had this exact situation. We were beating the dickens out of the team we were playing. This was back before the running clock rules became prominent. 4th quarter and we were up 70 something to not much. At one point in time the other team inbounded the ball straight one of my teammates and he shot a uncontested layup. And they did it again. And again. Soon all of us wanted a piece of that action and were like kids in a candy store. running toward that end of the court. After about four five times they threw a long pass and they scored an uncontested layup because we were all on the other end. I think the score was 94 to 30 something. Although I didn't pay attention to that stuff back then I don't remember there being any forfeit discussion or the like from the officials.