I think chseagle was my timer tonight
 

GV Game, middle of the 2nd quarter, horn sounds. I go over and the scorers inform me that #13 is not in either book. I ask for the roster supplied by the visiting coach. There she is, #13 list on the roster. No technical, add her to both books, let's play.

Timer says no, it's a technical foul.

What? :eek:

No, it's not a technical foul. The coach supplied a roster with the player listed. This is a scorer's error. Now let's play.

I walk away. Next thing I hear is the timer yelling to the home coach and the fans behind the home bench that it's a technical foul but I don't know the rule and won't call it.

I walk back to the table ask quietly the timer. "Is there a problem?" "Yes, it's a technical foul." I explained it once more and told him that was the end of the discussion. As I walked away again, he yelled, "YES SIR!" at which time I turned and asked where I could find the principal or AD.

I explained the problem and asked him if he had another ECO. He said no but asked if he could talk to him and take care of the problem. He did and we had no further problem.

Some people just don't get it.

Kinda odd that the player was listed on the roster yet never was listed in either book.This sounds like a HTBT as I would of responded diffrently than that timer.

Question however, since the player was not listed in either book yet the V HC said the scorer was supplied the roster, how could that not be an Administrative T as the name/number have to be added?

There's nothing HTBT about this. The timer's job is to flip the switches and keep his mouth shut.

IOW Had to have been there to see everything unfold in person.

I would never have insisted it was a T, I would of politely asked & after hearing the answer gone on with duties/responsibilities, not turned it into a soap opera like the idiot in the OP did.

Why would you respond at all? It' absolutely none of your concern as the timer.

Where did I say the V HC said a word?

The visiting team's roster was lying on the table. The visting scorer missed #13 on the roster. The home scorer copied the visitor's book instead of the roster. BOTH scorers were in error, not the V HC. It was a bookkeeping error whcih can be corrected at anytime.

+1

It's not a technical because the official book failed to correctly copy the properly supplied roster. We're not going to penalize a team because the book failed to copy the supplied roster. If we did this, every game would start with a technical because the book "forgot" to copy a number from the visiting team.

Seriously, he's gotta be putting us on.

I was asking about the Administrative T as the name had to be added to both scorebooks although it was initially supplied.

Since the name/number was added after the officials checked the rosters in both books, it would be considered an Administrative T.

"Administrative:
Providing rosters; starters; numbers; changes,
additions, etc.; team not ready to start half, TV
monitor, electronic communication; not
occupying assigned bench; more than five
players; excess time-out; violation after team
warning for delay; all players not returning at
same time after time-out or intermission (10-1)"

Just trying to figure out how it would not be considered as such since having to add the player, even though the roster was supplied.

Like was said earlier, this was a book keeping error. All a team is required to do is provide a proper roster by the 10 minute mark. If this is done, then the team has fulfilled its requirement. If we went by how you think the rule is administered, literally every game would start with a technical foul against the visitors or at some point a number would have to be added because the home team "forgot" to add the number.

Now if the book properly copied all the names and numbers from the supplied roster, and THEN there had to be an addition after the 10 minute mark, there would would have an administrative technical foul.

The penalty is not for adding the name to the book. The penalty is for adding it to the team member list. (roster)


Seriously, you've gotta be putting us on.

Generally, rosters are copied from one scorebook to another not from a roster supplied by the coach, except for that team's roster either from the coach's memory or a previous game.

As I understood the rules, the rosters are to be in the scorebook(s) by the ten minute mark in order to be supplied, not just a paper lying next to the scorebook for the scorer to copy from.

Just trying to get clarification, as I have seen it called as an administrative T before.

You've seen a T called when the coach has supplied the list, but the scorer has not yet copied it at the 10 minute mark?

Seriously, he's putting us on.

I probably would have just had the timer replaced at this point - guess I'm a little less tolerant in my old age....:D

You handled it just fine.

Eagle...You have a gross misunderstanding of this rule. That is all.

Due to the fact that the roster (player was not listed, though a printed roster was presented with the player listed) was not listed in the official scorebook, as it was on the printed roster, yes it was called.

Concerning the adding of the player into the scorebook, the R (at about 10 minute mark pregame), comes to table & verifies that the number of players warming up for each team match that which is in the scorebook (in the OP somehow V13 was either not counted or not within the visible confines of the court) so there was one more player in uniform than what the scorebook showed. At the time the count was done it should of been noticed about V13 missing from the scorebook, it was not. Since V13 had to be added to the scorebook when coming in to substitute according to the rules it is an administrative T.

10.1.2 SITUATION: (a) Three minutes prior to the start of the game; or (b) during a time-out in the second quarter of play, the Team B coach requests the scorer to add a name to the team list or change a team member’s number in the scorebook.
When is the penalty invoked for this administrative infraction?
RULING: The infraction occurs when the scorer is advised to add to or change the scorebook. The foul must be charged when it occurs and enforced when the ball next becomes live. Once the ball has become live, it is too late to penalize.

These two situations are completely different. In the case play, the coach erred. In your situation, the scorer erred. One causes a technical foul, the other causes embarrassment.

No, going by his posting history he is that clueless. And you can't tell him anything because he just doesn't comprehend what you're telling him. Why expect anything different from him?

Ya know, I never considered that........

THAT I considered!

NFHS rule 10-1-1- "A team shall not fail to supply the scorer with the name and number of each team member who may participate...at least 10 minutes before the scheduled starting time."

NFHS rule 10-1-2(b)- "After the 10-minute time limit specified in Article 1: add a name to the team list."

Chseagle, you're looking at the wrong rule. Did the team supply the scorer with a list that included player #13 as required under R10-1-1? Yes! Did the scorer have to add a name to the team list that was given to him? No! What you want us to do is assess a penalty under rule 10-1-2(b) for a team failing to comply with rule 10-1-1. We can't do that because at no time was there a violation of rule 10-1-1. The team DID supply a correct team list that included player #13, and did so in a timely fashion. And you can't give a team a "T" for adding a name to a team list when that name was already on their team list.

The scorer screwed up, not the team. And any know-nothing timer that tries to involve themself in a situation that they simply do not understand should be banished from the kingdom.

Now......enough is enough and too much is plenty. Zip it!

No you don't HTBT. BktBallRef described it all in sufficient detail.

You highlighted the wrong part. The key word is "Providing". The team complied with that.

Otherwise, an unscrupulous home scorer could "forget" to add a name or two, or mark down the wrong starters and give his/her team an advantage.

I had a partner ask me last night during warmups how "strict" I was about having all the names in the book by 10 minutes. I "reminded" him that the rule does not require having all the names in the book; it requires that the team provide the scorers with a roster.

He said, "Oh, that's right." ;)

And this part cannot be overstated: Even if there is no list submitted at all, it is not any part of the timer's job to do or say anything.

Like I stated it was my understanding of the rules, as I am used to the rosters having to be in the scorebook by the 10:00 minute mark, not just a printed list outside the scorebook.

It goes to show you differences in areas & training in positions.

Of course I know it's never ALWAYS going to happen for the Sub-V games where I've had my training as scorer. However I have done my share of table operations for V games & have seen it happen before & have been to enough V games as either bench personnel/security/table to have seen it happen that a player is "accidently" forgotten to be listed yet an administrative T has still been called.

As stated before I have, as has my wife, seen it called as a Technical before as not always are printed rosters correct as to names/numbers or a printed roster is not supplied to the scorer.

You May Think It's So, But It Ain't About You ..
 

And it ain't even about us.

chseagle: Check out page seven of the NFHS rulebook. It doesn't have a number on it, but it's still a rule, a very important rule: "It is important to know the intent and purpose of a rule so that it may be intelligently applied in each play situation."

One intent and purpose of the "ten minute rule" is to ensure that rosters are written in the scorebooks before the game starts, so that we're not holding up the jump ball to start the game while the table is copying names, and numbers, into their respective scorebooks. Another intent and purpose is so that we don't have to hold up the game after the game starts to add a players name, and number, into the book. Officials, players, coaches, and fans want the kids play basketball, they don't want to watch scorekeepers making additions, or corrections, in the scorebook. And they certainly don't want to watch us officiating a free throw contest before clock actually starts.

I've been doing this for thirty years. Do you know how many times the book hasn't been "ready" at the ten minute mark? If I got a dollar every time it happened, I could buy a round, or two, of adult beverages after the game for all my pals. Do you know how many technical fouls I've seen charged for the book not being "ready" at the ten minute mark? None. I've officiated over 700 high school games, and, probably, three, or four times, as many lower level games. Do you know how many games I've started with something other than a jump ball? None.

As an official, you just don't want to start the game with "administrative" free throws. Officials will always bend over backwards to work with coaches, and the table crew, within the intent and purpose of the rules, to start the game with a jump ball, the way, God, and Dr. Naismith, intended it. In thirty years, I have found all head coaches, and all table crew members, to fully agree with me.

Now, would someone please help me down from this soapbox. I'm getting dizzy up here.

Quick, How Do You Work This Edit Function ???
 

Wait a minute? Did I really post this? Wow. Sometimes chseagle can really get me worked up. Maybe the soapbox was way too high, and the lack of oxygen at that altitude effected my brain, and confused me?

Finally a constructive "non-condescending" answer/

All I have been doing is mentioning my understanding of rules & yet almost everyone that responds is trying to turn my a$$ into the grand canyon with no rhyme/reason except to exert their manhood where it does not belong.

Like stated a million times before (over-exaggerated) I am wanting to learn the proper meanings/reasonings behind the rules, yet majority of the time instead of politely explaining the proper use/meaning of the rule I am being fed to the wolves for just asking for clarifications.

Sorry to say this but almost everyone on here miserably fails as teachers as cannot calmly explain with rational thinking how/why a rule is written compared to how it is understood.

BillyMac, your soapbox (to me) was only about 1-2 feet off the ground.

And we've given you clarification. Your understanding is wrong.

The coach is required to supply the scorer with the name and number of each team member who may participate. (10-1-1)

The coach did that. The fact that both scorers failed to write #13's name in their books is a bookkeeping error. Therefore, the team is NOT penalized.

I'm used to the fact that 10-1-1 means all names/numbers are listed in the scorebook, as that is what I am used to is all I was getting at.

It is that I was thinking the intent & purpose is different compared to what is the norm concerning what I have witnessed/experienced.

Unfortunately different people see the purpose & intent differently :eek:

Maybe if you just accepted the damn answers that are being given to you by some very knowledgable officials instead of trying to argue with them when you don't have the knowledge to do so, we might have a little more patience with you. As it stands right now though, all you are doing is making yourself a big pain in our collective asses because your understanding of even the basic rules is almost non-existent.

You were given the correct meaning of this particular rule as well as the reasoning behind it. Instead of saying "thank you", instead you insisted on arguing that everybody was wrong.

It ain't a matter of us failing as teachers, chseagle. It's a case of you failing miserably as a student.

Sorry but there it is....like it or not.

The intent and purpose is that the coach provide the scorer a team list prior to the 10 minute mark, not that the book be completed prior to the 10 minute mark.

Fortunately, it makes no difference what a timer sees as the intent and purpose of the rule. It is not any part of the timer's job to do or say anything.

"Father, I Can Not Tell a Lie; I Cut the Tree." ...
 

Damn. chseagle has got me so worked up that I'm starting to lie. After re-reading my previous post, I discovered that, as the politicians say, "I misspoke". I did start a game once, a boys recreation league game, with a few free throws. After being politely reminded to stay off the rim, a kid threw one down to show off. So I responded appropriately.

IOW in that game the T was due to a player showboating (a deserving Technical for displaying unsporting behavior).

Didn't mean to get you that worked up.

Fortunately the people that count...the officials responsible for administering the rules...know the correct purpose and intent of the rule they are administering. Unfortunately though, some clueless timers won't accept that fact. Also unfortunately, those same clueless timers can't get through their thick heads that they have NOTHING to do with officiating the game. It doesn't matter one bit if any timer sees the purpose and intent of a rule differently than an official. The bottom line is that you don't get a vote. And if you want a say, well, you'd better know your audience. A lot of officials will simply tell the AD to get 'em a timer that knows enough to just time. I'm one of them.

Iow stick to what you're supposed to do and let us do what we're supposed to do.

Think about this for just a moment; you're saying the coaches are to be held responsible for the inaction of the scorer.

Sitch: Coaches both provide rosters to the scorer at the 15:00 mark. Right after getting the home team entered, the scorer has to go to the bathroom. He returns at the 9:00 mark and completes the book. Your understanding would have a T called on the Visitors here?

It's easier for us if it's in the book at 10, but we can't call a T here if the coach has done his job.

I guess I am less tolerant as well. The administrator would be putting a sub at the table. No way I am continuing in that spot w/o him/her gone.

Chseagle, people are explaining things just great. You however have a lack of simple comprehension. This is a forum for REFEREES. People who wear striped shirts and whistles. You fail to comprehend that. You want to discuss your duties and all the authority you exude. We don't care. You are a T-I-M-E-R, not a R-E-F-E-R-E-E. You fail to understand that. Somehow, people reply to your trolling and actually discuss rules with you. They explain the rules and your duties to you. You fail to understand that. Finally, it has become painfully obvious that you have some kind of authority complex. You are hung up on not only officiating, but security and anything else that puts you in a position of power over people. You are a timer. You have no authority. Even if you did, authority will never make people respect you. Anyway, officiating basketball is not about authority. It is just about being a part of an educational experience for high school students. Since you want control over people, go start a cult. My Christmas wish is to see you banned from this forum, and I would suggest some psychological help to deal with your authority issues.

Sigh.

It's not what we don't know that gets us in trouble, it's what we know for sure that just ain't so.

What you should have said about 4 posts ago was, "Thanks. I had a misconception on the rule, but now I understand."

"I explained the problem and asked him if he had another ECO. He said no but asked if he could talk to him and take care of the problem."

So you're going to refuse to rstart the game? You're going to forfeit the game? You're going to leave and go home? :confused:

Last year, a visiting club had provided the roster of names and numbers to the scorer at the prescribed time. The home scorer started complaining loudly that the visitors had not provided all of the information so she could enter it in the book. She got the home coach involved, who I discovered a few weeks ago was her husband. A shouting match ensued at which time I told them that the roster had been provided and that there would be no technical foul. Adversarial lines had been drawn in the sand and when the scorer missed a FT by the visitors it escalated. Eventually, the visitors coach was escorted out of the gym after going to the table and accusing the scorer of cheating.

IF, the scorer had kept her mouth shut and simply asked the referee what was required, it is likely that the situation would not have escalated. What rule does the scorer need to know? Rule 2-11. Nowhere does it speak of advising the HC or inciting the crowd. 2-11-2 was met and that is the end of it.

Rule 2-12 is for the timer. If the referee or umpire[s] want additional input that is not outlined in those two rules, it will be asked for by the referee or umpire[s].

Eagleboy, you may think you are smarter than a 5th grader, but when one or more of the long time officials gives an answer and you argue the point, it shows that the 5th grader is capable of gaining knowledge and you are not. Only if I were in Key West, would I be further away from having to tolerate your work at the table. For that, I am thankful.

Table Crew, Can't Live With Them, Can't Live Without Them ...
 

Not everyone shares this opinion. I for one, do appreciate that we have table personnel, like SCalScoreKeeper, and chseagle, posting on the Forum. They certainly are an important part of the game, although not as important as chseagle thinks, and I believe that they can contribute a lot to this Forum. They can certainly provide a different perspective, much different than the officials, coaches, and fanboys that post here.

Now, that being said. chseagle: Please shut your mouth, and open your ears.

Several months ago I posed a suggestion that we take up a collection to fund a website to host the official timekeeper/scorer/crowd control discussion on a server in Borneo. Naturally, Timerguy would be the admin and charter member.
Donations accepted by [email protected].
Give til it hurts!;):cool::D

A few years ago I left a visiting player's name and number out of the book and didn't realize it until after the game had started (the visitors didn't have anyone at the table with a book). I usually have a coach from the visiting school check the book but for some reason didn't that night (I don't remember why).

I didn't say anything to anybody, just added the player's name and number to the book. It was my mistake and I just fixed it. That might not have been the way to handle it, but that's what I did.

Just don't think I would have 'explained the problem'. I would have said "he/she needs to go."

As the R, I check the book prior to the game and put a line under the last players name, so that shouldn't be able to happen without being noticeable.

That being said, I've never personally had to go back and check a book. Hmm....

I like to think that I have better people skills than that. In that situation, you can't make the principal replace the timer if he doesn't have a competent replacement. Putting someone on the clock that doesn't know what he's doing just makes a bad situation worse. I worked with the principal and found a solution that enabled us to finish both games. In the end, he thanked me and we left the school on good terms.

Your way is pretty arrogant. You're telling him to replace him or else. It would be stupid to back yourself in a corner like that. That type of arrogance isn't going to help the situation.

Thank you!
 

Hello All,
I appreciate the sentiment and welcoming nature of the members of this board.When I first joined you all made me (even as a scorekeeper) feel incredibly welcome to participate.I came here as a professional development tool to gain a better understanding of the game and feel as if you all have helped me succeed in that regard and have enjoyed the humor from our senior members. Through this board I have gained an entirely new respect for what you all do night in and night out.

Sincerely,
Derryl Trujillo (Official Scorekeeper Woodcrest Christian Varsity Boys/Girls Basketball-Riverside,CA) :) :) :) :) :) :)

Thanks, Derryl, now you've got me all verklempt. I may need an extra dose of meds before I can get to sleep tonight:o

I'm a little hazy on the details because this was a few years ago, but two of the problems were that I was delayed in getting the names into the book for some reason (through no fault of the coach from the visiting school) and didn't have all the names in when the official came to check the book at the 10:00 minute mark.

The other problem was that the visiting team's roster had 18 or 19 players, more names than I had spaces for. I skipped a player's name and number while hurrying to get the names in the book and squeezing some of them into the available spaces. Because of the number of players, even if the official wanted to draw a line under the name of the last player, there wouldn't have been anyplace to put it.

Seems It Never Rains In Southern California ...
 

With these credentials, highlighted above, you'll be doing the scorekeeping for NCAA Division I games in a few months. Next time UCLA, or USC, plays on ESPN, we'll be looking for you. Give us a little wave.

That Is Oh So Last Week ...
 

That was last week's Word of the Week. Let's move on. Isn't Hanukkah over?

Many years ago at a HS varsity game, we were the visiting team and the home scorer for the varsity game was nowhere to be found as the pre-game clock slowly wound down. The referees told our coach that if our roster was not in the home book by the 10 minute mark, it was going to be T on us. :eek: :confused:

If no one was available to be home scorer, why did they not just make the visitor book the official scorer?

Because the same refs who would hold the coach responsible for that play are the ones who don't know you can appoint the V book as official. The fact is these guys didn't know the rule.

UPDATE: Mr. Timer has been relieved of his duties, permanently.

I called the assignor on Tuesday and shared the situation with him. I learned that we were the third crew to have problems with this timer this season, which is only in it's 4th week. Since the rules state that the referee must approve the timer, the assignor has contacted the A.D. and told him that no referee from our association will approve this man as the timer. They have 3 weeks before the next home game. He included a copy of the NFHS instructions for timers and scorers so they might begin training a new timer.

The Instructions for & Duties of Scorer/Timer for Basketball Games is very useful as a training tool.

Is there not someone that does Sub-V timer there that might be able to step up?

NFHS Rule 2-4-3 is the rule you're quoting.

I had my first hint of a problem with someone from the table in my game last night. No problems like the OP though. The scorer (Who when we introduced ourselves before the game let us know she was the superintendent and administrator on duty) kept looking away from us when we reported fouls. She would either be looking at someone else at the table or already looking down recording who she though the foul was on when we were reporting. Nothing to have someone replaced over, but rather annoying to say the least. At least the board operator/timer was making eye contact with us every time so he could fill her in if she missed something.

Why would I know or even care?

Didn't believe me and had to look it up, eh?

At the very least, you should tell her to not make asumptions regarding the foul and to wait for the signal.

I believed you on the rule citation, I was just quoting the exact rule number for everyone's reference.

Concerning using a Sub-V Timer in place of the replaced V Timer, they would already have some training/experience, instead of bringing in someone that has not done table.

Don't worry Chseagle, some guys on here may say it is the student, but I think many are pretty lousy teachers! Hang in there and keep asking questions. If they don't like it hopefully they can resist the temptation to treat you in a in such a rude way.

I'm sure I'll take some heat for posting this, but I think someone needed to stand up for someone else on here! I know this site has been extremely valuable for me and has taught me a ton, and I'm very thankful for the years and years of experience that these guys have and all that they are willing to pass on. I only wish that some could do it in a more constructive and less degrading manner.

Here is an idea.

Give up your cushy lil gig as a timer or scorer or whatever the hell it is you do.

Write the exam, go to the floor training sessions and join your local board/association.

Everyone here would be much more receptive to your goofy questions.

Until then, stop the clock when I blow my whistle and start it when I chop time in.

The guy won't listen. He won't accept answers & explanations from veterans with far more knowledge than I. He is constantly second guessing. He is a Yabut of the nth degree and deserves every bit of stick that comes his way.

they might, but BktBallRef's point is that it's up to the school and not up to the officials. Maybe the school has a reason for keeping the sub-V timer at the sub-v level (for example, maybe he's a PITA who is always trying to overstep his bounds; maybe the school is worried that the school will have to replace a second timer if the sub-V timer is promoted.)

Well said. Even as a neophyte basketball official, I am willing to help others with less knowledge. There comes a point though where this becomes a fruitless endeavor.

+100

Good points all around, bob.

Again, that's not my concern or anything that I would have knowledge about. You need to find the forum that the principal or AD post on and ask them that question. Or I can get the prinicapl's email addy and you can email him.

Upon further review....

You're right. Maybe we could try to be a little bit more tolerant...including myself (hard as it might be sometimes :) ).

Apologies T William Sydney Porter ...
 

Alright. What have you done with the real Jurassic Referee and how much ransom do you want to keep him?

What I am meaning by the using of the Sub-V timer is that they can be used as a back-up/alternate as long as they have the appropriate training/experience in case either the V Timer is relieved of duties or does not show up due to illness/other reasons.

I can only imagine last year, what might of happened had neither my wife or I been there with the V Timer not showing up due to illness. As far I know, there are not many trained to operate the scoreboard or are comfortable running the scoreboard during Varsity level games.

Concerning shot clock operations, I & my wife have been training my father. however he does not feel comfortable at all with doing Varsity Level games (even after doing shot clock at the Sub-V level for the past couple of years). If the need arose where he had to do Varsity shot clock, he'd just have to remember everything that he was taught & do all he can to blank out the crowd noise & focus on the action on the court alone.

I realize I have in the past complained about wishing I was V Timer all the time, however I now realize that if I am needed as V Timer I will be asked to assist if the need arises.

Just like the postings about officials doing only Varsity games & wanting to work only those games, the same can be said for table crew that you shouldn't be content with just doing Varsity level games, but also be willing to do the Sub-V games. Same can be said for those doing only Sub-V games, expect that sooner or later, you'll be asked to do Varsity games.

There is no need for the principal's or AD's e-mail for CHS as that is one of the many methods I am using to communicate with them.

Seriously, for the game clock, I can teach any half-way intelligent person that has watched any decent amount of basketball how to run the necessary parts of most clock systems in about 5 minutes.

The #1 thing they need to know is to stop the clock when they hear a whistle and, when the clock is stopped, find an official with their arm raised and start the clock when that official chops in time. There is usually one switch that does that for them (sometimes two buttons...start/stop).

They will need to know how to add points to either team (and take them off if they get it wrong). A lot of modern boards have 4 buttons for each team: +1, +2, +3, and -1. Not exactly rocket science.

That is IT. Forget the rest.

They can get help in resetting the time for the next quarter or resetting the time in case of an error. We can depend on the scorekeeper for the foul counts. Fouls on the board is just a nice-to-have. They really don't need to know how to program the board to calculate their taxes.

To add to what Camron said, most any experienced official can walk over to the table and in a few seconds reset the time if needed- even though we're looking at it upside down.

I've done as Camron described - taken a student with no experience and taught them the essentials in 5 minutes or less and they did a great job. It just isn't that difficult......

I wasn't saying anything about it being hard.

Depending on the game, a person can become nervous or unsure of themselves if certain situations are presented. Especially if they have no prior experience & are being trained on the spot.

The first varsity games where I was timer was during the 4A Regionals back in February 2009, although I had been doing Girls' Varsity shot clock throughout the year.

Again chseagle, I don't know what the school's plans are nor is it my concern. I asked the principal if he had anyone else capable of running the clock and he said know. The timer in question worked all 4 games last Friday night.

I was referring to the administrators at the HS where I had the issue, that you keep asking whether they had a sub-V timer or not.

I was meaning in general, not just the school in question.

Sorry if I lived in North Carolina having that information might help, however I live across the country so not helpful :(

If I knew which school it was I could look it up

Sigh....

B.I.T.S. - I think you need a bigger clue by four.......:D

Maybe you should make enquiries and call the school to find out. I suggest that because the OP is a basketball referee. He has nothing to do with a schools process for replacing and traiining a score board opertor, nor does he care I would assume. All the referee cares is that someone is there at the table to do the task and that the person does it efficiently and quietly.

I've sat in to run clock in an "emergency" when the regular guy didn't show up. I was given about 30 or 40 seconds of instruction on how to operate the 3-4 buttons and switches, and had no problems at all. It was quite simple and easy. To me, the job of a clock operator is to simply be an observer, an observer who makes correct responses in clock operation, and that's it.

The clock operator in my community is a somewhat odd fellow. He runs clock at the local Jr High, the High School, and down the road at the JC. He's very dedicated to his job and good at it. Though it's not a difficult job to be good at. I suppose we are just fortunate that somebody takes this mundane task so seriously and shows up. He's odd because he carries on a running monologue with his self through out the entire game. He describes the entire game as if he's a commentator, plus he narrates what he's doing with the clock, and then also talks to both scorers. He never shuts up, ever. He does this all in a monotone voice and just loud enough so only the table can hear him. Sounds kinda like this, "ok red ball, two points #12 red, reset the shot clock, foul on red # 11, stop the clock,..." and on and on and on.

Most visiting scorers only last a half, then they go sit in the stands where they can't hear him.

Doing table isn't difficult. Any smart kid who can pay attention and focus can do the job. Heck, working the snack bar is harder.

5 minutes?

True story, no exageration, when I filled in on clock for varsity game after coachng a JV game, the operation was explained to me in about 30 seconds. The last 10 seconds was redundant. If a guy never played before it might bemore difficult. Or if such an operation was inherently difficult for an individual, they may need training.

OK, I was being generous. Didn't want to dump on him too hard.

That's the key. It's difficult for some, especially when just starting out, to pay attention for the 70 minutes or so the game lasts. So, near the end, they start to watch the game and forget to start or stop the clock.

Well I certainly wouldn't argue with you on that...especially since I'm not sure what we're arguing about :D

+1

Funny stuff. :D

its German, by the way

Verklempt ???
 

Yiddish: a High German language with an admixture of vocabulary from Hebrew and the Slavic languages, written in Hebrew letters, and spoken mainly by Jews in eastern and central Europe and by Jewish emigrants from these regions and their descendants.