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The_Rookie Fri Dec 03, 2010 12:35pm

Rookie Schedule
 
What number of games assigned are considered good for a Rookie?

How do you stay sharp if there is a 2-3 week span between your assignments?

Scuba_ref Fri Dec 03, 2010 12:44pm

It seems to me that 2-3 weeks between assignments is a long time, even for a rookie. Go to as many games as you can, watch the officials, and ask if you can attend their pre-game, half-time and post-game discussions.

bob jenkins Fri Dec 03, 2010 12:47pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Rookie (Post 705044)
What number of games assigned are considered good for a Rookie?

Totally depends on the area.

Look for games from different assigners (perhaps at different levels) to keep working.

JRutledge Fri Dec 03, 2010 12:59pm

I cannot tell you. I worked almost every day of the week including Sunday for several weeks. And in most cases there was more than one game a week. But that was a long time ago and in a different area that I work. Some people will not work for a couple of weeks like you in my current area, because when they get their licenses, it will take some time to get known or games have already been assigned. The best those people can do is to fill in when games come available. Like Bob J said, this really is an area thing. And I would also follow S_ref says here and go watch guys work. Ask to tag along with friends or meet guys at game (preferably varsity night contests). You will learn a lot by watching the best official in your area and seeing what they do. At least you can think basketball and see rules and judgment being applied.

Peace

jTheUmp Fri Dec 03, 2010 01:01pm

Totally depends on the area... 2-3 weeks does seem like a long time, but it may be unavoidable due to team's schedules, your availablity, etc.

See if you can find some rec league work... yes, it's wreck ball, but any experience is good experience. (and there's no better way to learn to apply "advantage/disadvantage" then to try to officiate 12U girls basketball).

bainsey Fri Dec 03, 2010 01:15pm

It's a simple case of supply and demand.

If officials are in demand, less experienced ones are more likely to work games. If they have plenty of vets, the newer guys will get fewer games.

SWMOzebra Fri Dec 03, 2010 02:31pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scuba_ref (Post 705052)
Go to as many games as you can, watch the officials, and ask if you can attend their pre-game, half-time and post-game discussions.

Sound advice. If you sit in with the crew during their pre-game and half-time discussions, I would suggest listening more and talking less. Save your questions for the post-game pow-wow.

dsqrddgd909 Fri Dec 03, 2010 02:47pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Rookie (Post 705044)
What number of games assigned are considered good for a Rookie?

How do you stay sharp if there is a 2-3 week span between your assignments?

My rookie year of '09-'10 I got ~15 HS games mostly freshman and JV. In addition, I reffed at whatever levels I could find EXCEPT ADULT REC LEAGUE. I reffed Jr. High, Youth, CYO and a pretty good HS Rec league.

Try to learn or work on one thing at every game at every level. Yesterday's game (Girls 9th grade), I worked on stepping towards the play on a shot instead of bailing out too early.

Let your assignors know that your stuff is packed and in the car at all times and no game is too far or too low a level.

JFlores Fri Dec 03, 2010 02:49pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bainsey (Post 705080)
It's a simple case of supply and demand.

If officials are in demand, less experienced ones are more likely to work games. If they have plenty of vets, the newer guys will get fewer games.

Unless your in Houston. I guess with the economy there has not been a high turnover rate on fellow refs. Usually every year you would have anywhere from 50-65% of guys that dont return.

This year, the sub vars assignor are mainly concentrating on guys with 0-3 years of experience. Everyone else is SOL or getting whats left over especially if they dont have vars games.

JRutledge Fri Dec 03, 2010 03:01pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JFlores (Post 705121)
Unless your in Houston. I guess with the economy there has not been a high turnover rate on fellow refs. Usually every year you would have anywhere from 50-65% of guys that dont return.

This year, the sub vars assignor are mainly concentrating on guys with 0-3 years of experience. Everyone else is SOL or getting whats left over especially if they dont have vars games.

That seems like a huge turnover. Not saying we have better numbers, but why do you think there are so many not coming back?

Peace

Spence Fri Dec 03, 2010 03:10pm

3rd year official.

I think I did about 40 JV/frosh games my first year.

I didn't do anything other than high school.

JFlores Fri Dec 03, 2010 03:11pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 705125)
That seems like a huge turnover. Not saying we have better numbers, but why do you think there are so many not coming back?

Peace

Easy, they dont know how to handle fans and coaches. I can recall first year, some of the coaches being a-holes, fans constanly moaning from the stands. If your not mentally prepared for it, I can easily see why it would fluster young officials.

Around here, the second half of the season you get a huge amount of turnbacks, guys get that xmas money and disappear until next season.

JRutledge Fri Dec 03, 2010 03:15pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JFlores (Post 705128)
Easy, they dont know how to handle fans and coaches. I can recall first year, some of the coaches being a-holes, fans constanly moaning from the stands. If your not mentally prepared for it, I can easily see why it would fluster young officials.

Around here, the second half of the season you get a huge amount of turnbacks, guys get that xmas money and disappear until next season.

Wow!!! I get the not being able to mentally handle people yelling at you. But I guess I am surprised by the turn backs and why that would be "allowed." If we did that here those guys would not have many games the next season.

Peace

Camron Rust Fri Dec 03, 2010 05:38pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 705125)
That seems like a huge turnover. Not saying we have better numbers, but why do you think there are so many not coming back?

Peace

I'm guessing his turnover quote was with regards to 1st year officials. That doesn't seem that far off. I don't think our retention rate after the first year would be much better. A lot of people sign up that just aren't cut out for it. I'd bet that we lose nearly 75% of new officials within 3 years.

Texas Aggie Fri Dec 03, 2010 06:03pm

Quote:

why do you think there are so many not coming back
I can only talk about what I'm seeing:

1. The abuse has gotten worse from the fans and stayed the same from the coaches. Texas UIL gives lip service about sanctions against coaches but in my experience, unless they are ejected, there isn't a penalty. Ejections are rare and the officials are scrutinized heavily -- plus first year folks generally don't have the stones to run anyone.

2. Many large chapters are forced to put 2 first year officials in a jr. high game. These games are often as heated as any rivalry varsity contest and 2 first years can't handle it.

3. Large chapters see many, if not the majority of the time, blow out games with 40 or 50 foul calls. If its not that, then its urban jungle or street ball with little offense or defense being played. These games are not fun and wear down anyone. At the end of the year, there is a strong feeling that one can find something better to do.

4. The physical play has changed the game and made it much more difficult to learn to officiate. One guy in the meeting says "if someone hits the floor, there needs to be a foul called." Another person giving a new guy a critique says, "you're calling too many fouls." Then, they watch us work with mixed results and a very mixed message. While it was never an a+b=c formula, its made the learning curve more difficult.

Camron Rust Fri Dec 03, 2010 06:45pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie (Post 705158)
I can only talk about what I'm seeing:

Plus, the pay stinks...you only do it cause you like it. Many people would might be good officials just don't put in the effort since they can earn more money elsewhere....or decide their time is more valuable then sub-minimum wage pay.

Here in Oregon, the officials get the short end of the stick when the economy is poor. The teachers and AD's keep getting their raises since they've got their union contracts. Those same individuals then petition for the officials to give up previously agreed upon raises and pretty much force it on the officials who have no real leverage.

We had our mileage rate cut by about 10%, even when gas prices and the federal rate were going up...and we already had to split a single mileage pay among the crew anyway (football really gets the short end on that one...effectivley under 10cent/mile per person).

The schools just won't find a way to pay the officials the previously agreed upon $2 more per game per official (2-person). One year, they petitioned the officials to freeze their pay one year (more accurately, mandated) with a promise to catch up the next year (give the scheduled raise and the delayed raise). Guess what happened the year...they didn't want to stick to their word.

The teams still find a way travel out of state or across the state for a tourneys, They find a way to get new uniforms.

They only need to come up with another $4 per game each year. All they have to do to pay the officials the promised raises is to charge an extra few cents for adminssions...but they don't seem to figure that out.

BillyMac Fri Dec 03, 2010 06:50pm

Look For The Union Label ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 705163)
The teachers and keep getting their raises since they've got their union contracts.

No problem here in the "Constitution State". Our state interscholastic sports governing body bases the fee increase each year on the average statewide annual teacher salary raise.

The average pay increase for teachers in Connecticut this school year was 2%. So officials got a 2% fee increase. Varsity $88.28. Subvarsity $57.25. No mileage.

No more contract negotiations in smoked filled, back rooms. Easy peasy lemon squeezie.

Camron Rust Fri Dec 03, 2010 07:40pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 705164)
No problem here in the "Constitution State". Our state interscholastic sports governing body bases the fee increase each year on the average statewide annual teacher salary raise.

The average pay increase for teachers in Connecticut this school year was 2%. So officials got a 2% fee increase. Varsity $88.28. Subvarsity $57.25.

No more contract negotiations in smoked filled, back rooms. Easy peasy lemon squeezie.

That is what I've proposed here.....but that assumes you start at a decent rate. One of the objections, is "How do you calculate that rate?"

We currently get $60.25 for Varisity plus $0.505 cents per mile, one way, as measured from a fixed point in the middle of the city with a minimum of $5. Most desitinations result in a total payday of $65-$70 (minues expenses and the assigner's commission) for 4-5 hours of commitment (travel time, pregame time, game time).

Mark Padgett Fri Dec 03, 2010 08:03pm

Camron - you should work our rec league here in Tigard. You can do 3 HS rec games on a Friday night and get $90. No mileage, but you're done in about 3 1/2 hours. Or, you could do 3 MS games on a Saturday and get $81 ($27 per game). Again, no mileage but if you were doing the little guys (running clock) you'd be done in less than 3 hours. These are the game fees for refs with at least four years of experience. Less experienced officials get somewhat less, but still not too bad. And if you wind up working alone (which almost never happens) you get 1 1/2 times your rate.

BTW - if you need (or just want) a new jersey, our league pays half, plus they'll give you a Fox 40 and Smitty if you don't have them.

Oh yeah - the "competitive" MS league pays $30 a game regardless of grade level.

JFlores Fri Dec 03, 2010 08:07pm

Yeah the lower the level the crazier the parents and coaches are. Everyones baby is the next lebron and you need to call the fouls accordingly.

Example of a crazy coach:
For instance my first game of the year i worked with a new official, however, for the second game the jv game needed one of us cause there was a no show, so the youngin did not feel like doing it on his own and i dont blame him. So before the game starts i tell coaches is just me alone, and to just bear with me.
The minute the game got hot, one coach in particular just starts moaning and screaming for calls. I had to call time and let him know that it was enough and that its just me and that I cant call everything. Furthermore, if he had issues he needs to take it up with our assignor, and the next complaint he would get a T. BUT I was diplomatic about it.

I also second about it being low pay, UIL is paying $30 a game jr.hi/sub vars plus mileage.

BillyMac Fri Dec 03, 2010 08:10pm

Pizza, Hot Dogs, Hot Pretzels, Soda ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett (Post 705167)
$30 a game.

Same pay as the Catholic school "junior varsity" league that I work on weekends. Fifth and sixth graders. Six minute periods. Games scheduled on the hour. We usually work a triple, or quadruple, header and walk out of there with $90 to $120, plus all the food you can eat from the concession stand. I tell you, it's like we're stealing money. Stealing money from the church? I think that I need to go to confession.

Terrapins Fan Fri Dec 03, 2010 09:17pm

My rookie year I worked 6 nights a week for about 10 weeks. Most were doubles.

The more work, the better your chances of improving by screwing up night after night and learning from your mistakes.

Hopefully you'll work with some good officials.

I always tell rookies, that you'll never be as bad as I was my first year. Terrible would have been 2 steps up for me.

But I stuck with it and now and I am 1 step above terrible, but some coaches would argue that.

Mark Padgett Fri Dec 03, 2010 09:29pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 705169)
plus all the food you can eat from the concession stand.

So do you ask for rule interpretations from the popcorn guy? :D

Spence Fri Dec 03, 2010 10:50pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 705163)

We had our mileage rate cut by about 10%, even when gas prices and the federal rate were going up....

How big of an area do you cover? What's the average drive to your games? I ask because I'm in a 3-county area that 90% of my games are within a 20 to 25 minute drive. We get no mileage.

bainsey Fri Dec 03, 2010 11:25pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 705169)
Stealing money from the church? I think that I need to go to confession.

Bless me, Father, for I have sinned. I touched my whistle in an impure manner...

JRutledge Sat Dec 04, 2010 02:08pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 705152)
I'm guessing his turnover quote was with regards to 1st year officials. That doesn't seem that far off. I don't think our retention rate after the first year would be much better. A lot of people sign up that just aren't cut out for it. I'd bet that we lose nearly 75% of new officials within 3 years.

I know he was talking about first year (brand spanking new officials) and that still seems a little high to me. Not to say that our numbers are not as high, but that seems a little high when you considering you have the opportunity to train and mentor many of them. We do not license officials at the local association level so that could be part of the factor in those numbers, where we usually have the opportunity to keep guys around because when they come to us they have someone helping them out usually. I agree that over some time we will lose a higher percentage as I feel that if we can get officials for 5 years they will do it until they cannot do it anymore or want to do it anymore (retirement or health).

Peace

chseagle Sat Dec 04, 2010 09:41pm

Here's an idea for all schools: stop giving students with ASB free entry into games, charge them $1-2.

Use uniforms for, at minimum, 2 years before getting new uniforms.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 705163)
The teams still find a way travel out of state or across the state for a tourneys, They find a way to get new uniforms.

All they have to do to pay the officials the promised raises is to charge an extra few cents for adminssions...but they don't seem to figure that out.


Scrapper1 Sun Dec 05, 2010 01:03pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scuba_ref (Post 705052)
..

I never realized there was competitive scuba diving that required referees!! :)

The_Rookie Mon Dec 06, 2010 05:26am

[QUOTE=Terrapins Fan;705174]My rookie year I worked 6 nights a week for about 10 weeks. Most were doubles.

The more work, the better your chances of improving by screwing up night after night and learning from your mistakes.


I have gaps of weeks in my schedule..Like you said, I need to be on the court often to develop a pattern and have a chance to kick lots of calls so that I learn to become a good official.

Maybe the Vets can explain to me why an assignor would allow gaps of weeks in a Rookie schedule instead of running us out there very often.

I know Lighten up Francis :)

rlarry Mon Dec 06, 2010 06:02am

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Rookie (Post 705571)
[I have gaps of weeks in my schedule..Like you said, I need to be on the court often to develop a pattern and have a chance to kick lots of calls so that I learn to become a good official.

Maybe the Vets can explain to me why an assignor would allow gaps of weeks in a Rookie schedule instead of running us out there very often.

I know Lighten up Francis :)

Around here, the assignors work for the schools. They have to assign the best qualified officials to fill their games. Our assignors only assign high school, it is up to the rookies to fill out their own schedule with middle school, cyo, competitive 5th grade games etc...

Terrapins Fan Mon Dec 06, 2010 07:37am

[QUOTE=The_Rookie;705571]
Quote:

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan (Post 705174)
My rookie year I worked 6 nights a week for about 10 weeks. Most were doubles.

The more work, the better your chances of improving by screwing up night after night and learning from your mistakes.


I have gaps of weeks in my schedule..Like you said, I need to be on the court often to develop a pattern and have a chance to kick lots of calls so that I learn to become a good official.

Maybe the Vets can explain to me why an assignor would allow gaps of weeks in a Rookie schedule instead of running us out there very often.

I know Lighten up Francis :)

We worked mostly 6th, 7th and 8 th grade games, but I would say we also did about 20 Freshmen and JV games.

You can't get better without making mistakes. Make a mistake, learn from it.

bob jenkins Mon Dec 06, 2010 08:59am

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Rookie (Post 705571)
Maybe the Vets can explain to me why an assignor would allow gaps of weeks in a Rookie schedule instead of running us out there very often.

1) Imbalance between number of games and number of refs.

2) Schedule / assignments were complete before assigner got your name (maybe you signed up / got licensed, etc "late")

3) Assigner just doesn't like you (for whatever reason)

4) Assigner has it in his / her head that you only want to work once every three weeks (maybe has you confused with someone else)

5) Assigner doesn't have a current copy of your open dates

IOW, you need to see what the "norm" is for your area and contact either the assigner or someone else in your association to see what (if anything) can be done.

Scuba_ref Mon Dec 06, 2010 11:34am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scrapper1 (Post 705425)
I never realized there was competitive scuba diving that required referees!! :)

We are more judges than officials when compared to bball refs. We sit on a panel of three judges and then evaluate the following:

YouTube - Doug & Dax's Underwater Dance Extravaganza

Not the most glamorous position but you do get all the bottled air you want.:p

Back In The Saddle Mon Dec 06, 2010 02:52pm

Have a chat with your assigner. Ask what is realistic for a first year official. Exhibit an attitude of gratitude for the games you are getting, and express your willingness to pick up any turn backs that may come. In my part of the world, a new official will often get most of his or her games that way.

There are things you can do to improve your chances of picking up turn backs. Assigners are just regular people. When a problem arises, they want to solve it quickly and painlessly. Every assigner has a small list of guys who will take assignments on short notice, travel, take care of problem partners, etc.. These are the guys he calls first. You want to be on that list. So...
  • Have wide open availability
  • Keep your block/availability calendar up to date
  • Keep your bag packed and in your vehicle
  • Find out how your assigner prefers to be contacted (phone, email, IM, etc.)
  • Maintain regular contact. If you know that Tuesdays are his biggest day, then maybe shoot him an email on Monday or call him Tuesday mid-morning, and ask him if he needs any help.

Keep in mind one reason assigners hesitate to assign new officials is they are an unknown quantity. So work every game the best you can. You want word to get back to your assigner that you always work hard, exhibit a professional demeanor, have the stones for the job, can fix problems, work well with partners, are reliable, and most of all...you don't generate negative phone calls.

Good luck!

JRutledge Mon Dec 06, 2010 03:35pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Rookie (Post 705571)
I have gaps of weeks in my schedule..Like you said, I need to be on the court often to develop a pattern and have a chance to kick lots of calls so that I learn to become a good official.

Maybe the Vets can explain to me why an assignor would allow gaps of weeks in a Rookie schedule instead of running us out there very often.

This is an area issue. No one here can explain why things are the way they are in your area but the folks that live there and probably the assignor who actually assigns the games.

But I can tell you in my area depending on when you decided to become an official matters here. Summer time is when you get to prove you can work by going to camps or make yourself available. If you are going to those camps you are more likely to get games than if you are just getting licensed late in October. In my area you cannot get games until you are licensed.

Peace

BillyMac Mon Dec 06, 2010 06:53pm

Our Little Corner Of Connecticut ...
 
We have a range of games schedule that our assigner must make every attempt to fulfill. For example, a top rated varsity official is supposed to get 36 to 43 varsity assignments. At the bottom of the varsity list, a low rated varsity official should get 12 to 14 varsity games. A top rated subvarsity official should get 25 to 30 subvarsity games. At the bottom of the subvarsity list, a low rated subvarsity official should get 12 to 14 subvarsity games. Rookie officials in our new class should get 10 to 12 subvarsity games. There is a note on the range of games schedule that the number of assigned games may be affected for officials with limited availability.

Every season a few members of our executive board go over all the assignments to insure that officials are being treated fairly, and are assigned a range of games according to the posted schedule. Over the years our assigners have done an excellent job assigning games in a fair manner, consistent with the range of games schedule. There have been very few complaints. I should know, I used to be on the grievance committee.


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