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-   -   Travel, carry, or nothing? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/59967-travel-carry-nothing.html)

Camron Rust Thu Dec 02, 2010 03:18pm
I think this situation actually exposes a hole in the rules.


Here is what I think:
  • A1 is not dribbling the ball...dribbing is "ball movement"
  • A1 is not holding the ball...therefore no travel.
  • It is not an interrupted dribble as it hasn't gotten away from A1
  • B1 hasn't earned a held ball
I think we have one big ugly nothing.

Jurassic Referee Thu Dec 02, 2010 03:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 704778)
The rule you cite defines what a player may or may not do while holding the ball but exactly where do the rules define "holding"? That is really the essence of this situation.
And that's exactly why it's a judgment call imo.

Eastshire Thu Dec 02, 2010 03:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 704782)
I think this situation actually exposes a hole in the rules.


Here is what I think:
  • A1 is not dribbling the ball...dribbing is "ball movement"
  • A1 is not holding the ball...therefore no travel.
  • It is not an interrupted dribble as it hasn't gotten away from A1
  • B1 hasn't earned a held ball
I think we have one big ugly nothing.
You're problem is that A1 was dribbling so unless he started holding the ball, he has not ended his dribble.

Jurassic Referee Thu Dec 02, 2010 03:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by camron rust (Post 704782)
i think this situation actually exposes a hole in the rules.


Here is what i think:
  • a1 is not dribbling the ball...dribbing is "ball movement"
  • a1 is not holding the ball...therefore no travel.
  • it is not an interrupted dribble as it hasn't gotten away from a1
  • b1 hasn't earned a held ball
i think we have one big ugly nothing.
+1

bob jenkins Fri Dec 03, 2010 09:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 704782)
I think this situation actually exposes a hole in the rules.


Here is what I think:
  • A1 is not dribbling the ball...dribbing is "ball movement"
  • A1 is not holding the ball...therefore no travel.
  • It is not an interrupted dribble as it hasn't gotten away from A1
  • B1 hasn't earned a held ball
I think we have one big ugly nothing.
I think it's a "double violation." (rule 11-3)

Go to the POI, but do it without the whistle.

bainsey Fri Dec 03, 2010 09:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 704782)
  • A1 is not dribbling the ball...dribbing is "ball movement"
  • A1 is not holding the ball...therefore no travel.
  • It is not an interrupted dribble as it hasn't gotten away from A1
  • B1 hasn't earned a held ball
I agree with 1, 3, and 4. Still, if A1 pinned the ball against A2's leg, and both took steps, was it not established that we would have a travel, even though A1 still would not be holding the ball?

Eastshire Fri Dec 03, 2010 09:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bainsey (Post 704942)
I agree with 1, 3, and 4. Still, if A1 pinned the ball against A2's leg, and both took steps, was it not established that we would have a travel, even though A1 still would not be holding the ball?
If A1 is the cause of the ball being pinned anywhere, it's traveling as he has caused the ball to rest in his hand and thus ended his dribble.

The only way in the OP you don't call traveling is if you judge that B1 caused the ball to be pinned so A1's dribble hasn't ended. If you don't have a dribble, A1 has violated.

Indianaref Fri Dec 03, 2010 09:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee (Post 704784)
And that's exactly why it's a judgment call imo.
Exactly, then we refer back to the calling official in the OP which was a travel.

Adam Fri Dec 03, 2010 09:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bainsey (Post 704942)
I agree with 1, 3, and 4. Still, if A1 pinned the ball against A2's leg, and both took steps, was it not established that we would have a travel, even though A1 still would not be holding the ball?
There's no way you can call a travel if A1 isn't holding the ball. There are two exceptions to that requirement, and this isn't one of them.

bob jenkins Fri Dec 03, 2010 09:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 704948)
There's no way you can call a travel if A1 isn't holding the ball. There are two exceptions to that requirement, and this isn't one of them.
Maybe there are three exceptions? ;)

Camron Rust Fri Dec 03, 2010 12:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bainsey (Post 704942)
I agree with 1, 3, and 4. Still, if A1 pinned the ball against A2's leg, and both took steps, was it not established that we would have a travel, even though A1 still would not be holding the ball?
I'll call that an attempt to circumvent the rules and call it a travel.

That would be like the play where the player who is on the floor sets the ball down, gets up, then picks up the ball. That is ruled a travel by interpretation, not exactly by rule, becasue it is viewed as an attempt to circumvent the travel rule in a way that was not intended.

Adam Fri Dec 03, 2010 12:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by camron rust (Post 705055)
i'll call that an attempt to circumvent the rules and call it a travel.

That would be like the play where the player who is on the floor sets the ball down, gets up, then picks up the ball. That is ruled a travel by interpretation, not exactly by rule, becasue it is viewed as an attempt to circumvent the travel rule in a way that was not intended.
+1


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