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-   -   Travel, carry, or nothing? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/59967-travel-carry-nothing.html)

Adam Thu Dec 02, 2010 01:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indianaref (Post 704710)
That's all good and I agree, however, in the OP the player never fumbled the ball, the ball never drops or slips from a player's grasp. That's why I say travel.
When did the dribble end?

Indianaref Thu Dec 02, 2010 01:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 704712)
When did the dribble end?
When the ball came to rest in A1's hand.

Adam Thu Dec 02, 2010 01:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indianaref (Post 704698)
So I quess it's alright for A1 to stick the ball on the hip of A2 and run down the court?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 704703)
Nah, as even if this slips through some loophole in the rules; I think it's safe to say it's an advantage not intended by the rules. If A1's purposefully sticking the ball on the hip of a teammate, I'd consider that control.

No offensive player in his right mind would do this with an opponent's hip on purpose; dribbling is both easier and more controlled.

Besides, it would just be easier to dribble and use A2 as a blocker. :D
Besides, in that case I'd consider the hip to be part of the leg. :D Not that really takes away from your point, though, as he could use the teammate's back instead.

Adam Thu Dec 02, 2010 01:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indianaref (Post 704714)
When the ball came to rest in A1's hand.
But did it? I'm assuming that A1 is attempting to push the ball down in a dribble. It's not resting in his hand, it's resting on B1's hip. There's a difference.

Eastshire Thu Dec 02, 2010 01:47pm
It's nothing. A1 is still dribbling the ball.

Quote:
4-15-4

The dribble ends when:

a. The dribbler catches or causes the ball to come to rest in one or both hands.

b. The dribbler palms/carries the ball by allowing it to come to rest in one or both hands.

c. The dribbler simultaneously touches the ball with both hands.

d. The ball touches or is touched by an opponent and causes the dribbler to lose control.

e. The ball becomes dead.
Let's examine them.

a - A1's hand is resting on the ball rather than the ball resting in A1's hand.
b - A1 is not palming or carrying the ball.
c - A1 is only touching the ball with one hand.
d - A1 has not lost control (yet)
e - The ball has not become dead.

Since the dribble has not ended, A1 cannot be guilty of traveling.

The R Thu Dec 02, 2010 01:48pm
Junk in the trunk.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 704716)
But did it? I'm assuming that A1 is attempting to push the ball down in a dribble. It's not resting in his hand, it's resting on B1's hip. There's a difference.
Yes A1's hand is on top of the ball attempting to keep dribbling towards the goal. B1's hip ,whom was running beside, got between the ball and the floor during the dribble.

Indianaref Thu Dec 02, 2010 01:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 704716)
But did it? I'm assuming that A1 is attempting to push the ball down in a dribble. It's not resting in his hand, it's resting on B1's hip. There's a difference.
What if A1 was attempting to push the ball down and his own d#mn hip got in the way?

Adam Thu Dec 02, 2010 01:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by The R (Post 704721)
Yes A1's hand is on top of the ball attempting to keep dribbling towards the goal. B1's hip ,whom was running beside, got between the ball and the floor during the dribble.
Yeah, in that case, I've got an on-going dribble and thus no travel.

The R Thu Dec 02, 2010 01:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indianaref (Post 704722)
What if A1 was attempting to push the ball down and his own d#mn hip got in the way?
That one would be a travel if they continued to take steps or an illegal dribble if they attempted to dribble again.

A1 would have control in this case which would end the dribble.

bainsey Thu Dec 02, 2010 01:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indianaref (Post 704706)
Look at it this way...held ball is both opponents with hands, not hips:eek:
I would agree with "nothing," if the opposing players were standing still.

However, once A-1's pivot foot comes up and goes back down, you must have something. If you held the ball against a teammate's hip, and moved that pivot foot, you'd have a travel.

But, how can you have a travel when the ball is being touched by an opponent? With that, the only viable remaining option I see is a held ball.

Eastshire Thu Dec 02, 2010 01:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bainsey (Post 704727)
I would agree with "nothing," if the opposing players were standing still.

However, once A-1's pivot foot comes up and goes back down, you must have something. If you held the ball against a teammate's hip, and moved that pivot foot, you'd have a travel.

But, how can you have a travel when the ball is being touched by an opponent? With that, the only viable remaining option I see is a held ball.
You don't have a pivot foot; A1 is not holding the ball 4-33.

Adam Thu Dec 02, 2010 02:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bainsey (Post 704727)
I would agree with "nothing," if the opposing players were standing still.

However, once A-1's pivot foot comes up and goes back down, you must have something. If you held the ball against a teammate's hip, and moved that pivot foot, you'd have a travel.

But, how can you have a travel when the ball is being touched by an opponent? With that, the only viable remaining option I see is a held ball.
You don't have to have anything; the dribble continues.

26 Year Gap Thu Dec 02, 2010 02:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 704716)
But did it? I'm assuming that A1 is attempting to push the ball down in a dribble. It's not resting in his hand, it's resting on B1's hip. There's a difference.
And what if the hip is considered part of the leg and B-1 intentionally moved in the direction of the ball? Do you have a kicking violation? Clumsy is not a foul. And snaqs' corollary 'ugly is not a violation' seems to be the way to go on this play.

Adam Thu Dec 02, 2010 02:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indianaref (Post 704722)
What if A1 was attempting to push the ball down and his own d#mn hip got in the way?
I'd call at travel on this, just as if he held it between his hand and stomach, or leg. But his hip does not equal B1's hip.

Eastshire Thu Dec 02, 2010 02:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 704733)
I'd call at travel on this, just as if he held it between his hand and stomach, or leg. But his hip does not equal B1's hip.
I agree. If it's his hip then he's caused the ball to be at rest in his hand, ending his dribble.


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