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-   -   Rule Changes/POEs for 2010-2011 (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/59026-rule-changes-poes-2010-2011-a.html)

chseagle Mon Sep 06, 2010 06:46am

Rule Changes/POEs for 2010-2011
 
Since the season here for WIAA is in about 3 months, I figured I better start getting ready for the season. Are the any real significant changes that I should be worried about?

For everyone curious, my knee is doing a bit better though still in a brace.

grunewar Mon Sep 06, 2010 06:59am

Here's a good place to start......
 
http://forum.officiating.com/basketb...e-changes.html

chseagle Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:12pm

Concerning 6-1-2, I am closely watching who has possession of the ball. If I sound the horn after the ball is in control of the player (happens rarely) I wave it off and mention to the table-side official inadvertant horn.

Though this clarifies more, that once the ball is in the hands of a player, no horn should sound.

The only concern I can see concerning the rule changes is: 3-3-1a NOTE; 4-34-2: Clarified that when a substitute is not properly reported, the players in the game at the conclusion of the quarter/when the time-out was granted shall begin play for the new quarter/after the time-out. During an intermission, all team members are bench personnel for the purpose of penalizing unsporting behavior. As coaches seem to find a way to get the players in though not reported in/

Everything else listed seems to be common sense.

Jurassic Referee Tue Sep 07, 2010 05:51am

Quote:

Originally Posted by chseagle (Post 691342)
Concerning 6-1-2, I am closely watching who has possession of the ball. <font color = red>If I sound the horn after the ball is in control of the player</font> (happens rarely) I wave it off and mention to the table-side official inadvertant horn.

<font color = red>Though this clarifies more, that once the ball is in the hands of a player, no horn should sound. </font>

Everything else listed seems to be common sense.

Unfortunately, that clarification has got dick-all to do with the ball being in the hands of the player. There is a big difference between a ball being at the disposal of a player versus a player holding the ball. One does not equal the other.

Further, there is no player control by rule either during a throw-in, even though the thrower may be holding the ball.

Common sense says that you should closely watch for the administering official to start a visual count on a throw-in or free throw. Once they do so, don't blow the horn.

bob jenkins Tue Sep 07, 2010 07:50am

Quote:

Originally Posted by chseagle (Post 691342)
Concerning 6-1-2, I am closely watching who has possession of the ball. If I sound the horn after the ball is in control of the player (happens rarely) I wave it off and mention to the table-side official inadvertant horn.

Though this clarifies more, that once the ball is in the hands of a player, no horn should sound.

IMO, the horn should (almost) never sound for subs. In any event, this clarification should be no change for the table.

Quote:

The only concern I can see concerning the rule changes is: 3-3-1a NOTE; 4-34-2: Clarified that when a substitute is not properly reported, the players in the game at the conclusion of the quarter/when the time-out was granted shall begin play for the new quarter/after the time-out. During an intermission, all team members are bench personnel for the purpose of penalizing unsporting behavior. As coaches seem to find a way to get the players in though not reported in/
What's the concern here? It's not a change -- too many coaches would send an asssistant to the table with subs during a quarter break ("we'll be going with the starters"). This was not in accordance with the rule. The table is always supposed to keep track of who is in the game.

chseagle Fri Sep 10, 2010 01:58am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 691362)
IMO, the horn should (almost) never sound for subs. In any event, this clarification should be no change for the table.



What's the concern here? It's not a change -- too many coaches would send an asssistant to the table with subs during a quarter break ("we'll be going with the starters"). This was not in accordance with the rule. The table is always supposed to keep track of who is in the game.

Concerning the horn, I don't sound it unless the ball is dead. Concerning the horn "never" sounding for subs, how many officials watch the table during dead balls for subs?

I've been working more each season to minimize the horn usage. It's just having good sense of what's going on all around, instead of just in front of a person.

Bob, I can see the sense in this change as all players NEED to report to the table in order to be properly recorded in the book.

grunewar Fri Sep 10, 2010 05:28am

Quote:

Originally Posted by chseagle (Post 691704)
Concerning the horn, I don't sound it unless the ball is dead. Concerning the horn "never" sounding for subs, how many officials watch the table during dead balls for subs?

If I don't take a quick glance at the table for subs at dead balls, and happen to miss one, my evaluators will have my a$$.

GoodwillRef Fri Sep 10, 2010 06:19am

Quote:

Originally Posted by grunewar (Post 691711)
If I don't take a quick glance at the table for subs at dead balls, and happen to miss one, my evaluators will have my a$$.

Always check the "triangle" partner, partner, table.

BillyMac Fri Sep 10, 2010 06:19am

Wave 'Em In ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by grunewar (Post 691711)
Take a quick glance at the table for subs at dead balls.

Standard operating procedure here in my little corner of Connecticut.

grunewar Fri Sep 10, 2010 06:24am

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef (Post 691716)
Always check the "triangle" partner, partner, table.

Never heard of it referred to like this before, but me likey!

Filed away for later use.

bob jenkins Fri Sep 10, 2010 07:52am

[QUOTE=chseagle;691704]Concerning the horn, I don't sound it unless the ball is dead. Concerning the horn "never" sounding for subs, how many officials watch the table during dead balls for subs?[quote]

They all should.

Quote:

Bob, I can see the sense in this change as all players NEED to report to the table in order to be properly recorded in the book.
Again, it's not a change. It's just a reminder that the break between quearters is different from the break between halves -- when a coach *can* make the line-up changes without the player reporting to the table.

Rich Fri Sep 10, 2010 08:08am

Quote:

Originally Posted by chseagle (Post 691704)
Concerning the horn, I don't sound it unless the ball is dead. Concerning the horn "never" sounding for subs, how many officials watch the table during dead balls for subs?

All of them, in games that I work. 99+% of the time, I have a whistle before the table even thinks about blowing a horn.

At least once a year, I have someone on the table tell me I *cannot* bring subs in until they've properly reported and are squatting on the X. Right.

APG Fri Sep 10, 2010 02:28pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by chseagle (Post 691704)
Concerning the horn, I don't sound it unless the ball is dead. Concerning the horn "never" sounding for subs, how many officials watch the table during dead balls for subs?

Any official who has done more than a couple of games will be checking the table for subs during dead balls. One starts to tend checking when they get tired of coaches and the table yelling "SUBS!" Heck, when we get really good, we even start notice them while going up and down in transition. ;)

zm1283 Fri Sep 10, 2010 02:58pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by grunewar (Post 691711)
If I don't take a quick glance at the table for subs at dead balls, and happen to miss one, my evaluators will have my a$$.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 691717)
Standard operating procedure here in my little corner of Connecticut.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichMSN (Post 691724)
All of them, in games that I work. 99+% of the time, I have a whistle before the table even thinks about blowing a horn.

At least once a year, I have someone on the table tell me I *cannot* bring subs in until they've properly reported and are squatting on the X. Right.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer (Post 691770)
Any official who has done more than a couple of games will be checking the table for subs during dead balls. One starts to tend checking when they get tired of coaches and the table yelling "SUBS!" Heck, when we get really good, we even start notice them while going up and down in transition. ;)

+1 on all of this. I check constantly.

Adam Fri Sep 10, 2010 04:30pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichMSN (Post 691724)
All of them, in games that I work. 99+% of the time, I have a whistle before the table even thinks about blowing a horn.

At least once a year, I have someone on the table tell me I *cannot* bring subs in until they've properly reported and are squatting on the X. Right.

In my first season working HS ball, I had an overzealous table guy try to tell me the same thing when he got my attention to inform me a sub had come in too early. Pretty sure he was trying to get a T for the opponent (suburban public v catholic school rivalry sophomore game).

Stat-Man Fri Sep 10, 2010 10:18pm

Does any one have an opinion on the POE where teams can no longer do full court warm-ups during pregame or halftime?

That's gonna catch some coaches by surprise this year, methinks. :D

chseagle Fri Sep 10, 2010 10:39pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichMSN (Post 691724)
All of them, in games that I work. 99+% of the time, I have a whistle before the table even thinks about blowing a horn.

At least once a year, I have someone on the table tell me I *cannot* bring subs in until they've properly reported and are squatting on the X. Right.

Concerning subs coming in, all the games I've done as book (as official book), they had to be in front of me in order to report in. In all the games where I've been clock/scoreboaord, I'm asking the official book if they recorded that player.

Some of the times when doing C-Squad games, I've seen some officials (of course newer officials) that rarely pay attention to the table.

What really annoys me is when bench personnel yell "Sub" when the official(s) are looking at the table &/or the horn has sounded.

chseagle Fri Sep 10, 2010 11:38pm

Rule change for WIAA
 
Was just checking out the WIAA 2010-2011 Handbook. For basketball it states:

52.7.0 NFHS Basketball Rule 5-5-3, utilizing a 40-point differential, will apply for all regular season & postseason contests. Beginning in the second half, if the point differential is 40 points or more,
the game clock shall run continuously for the remainder of the game except for an official’s timeout, a charged time-out, time between quarters, or the administration of free throws.

Adam Sat Sep 11, 2010 10:46am

Quote:

Originally Posted by chseagle (Post 691821)
Concerning subs coming in, all the games I've done as book (as official book), they had to be in front of me in order to report in. In all the games where I've been clock/scoreboaord, I'm asking the official book if they recorded that player.

Some of the times when doing C-Squad games, I've seen some officials (of course newer officials) that rarely pay attention to the table.

What really annoys me is when bench personnel yell "Sub" when the official(s) are looking at the table &/or the horn has sounded.

What really annoys me is when, as I'm handing the ball to the thrower, the coach yells "sub," then sends his sub to the table while the table hits the horn.

JRutledge Sat Sep 11, 2010 11:11am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stat-Man (Post 691818)
Does any one have an opinion on the POE where teams can no longer do full court warm-ups during pregame or halftime?

That's gonna catch some coaches by surprise this year, methinks. :D

In our state this was already emphasized several times and we have many Ts given in the state playoffs. If they do not know now, they will.

Peace

chseagle Sat Sep 11, 2010 03:11pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stat-Man (Post 691818)
Does any one have an opinion on the POE where teams can no longer do full court warm-ups during pregame or halftime?

That's gonna catch some coaches by surprise this year, methinks. :D

So, for clarification, teams can no longer run the full court length to reach their halfcourt for warm-ups?

If that's the case I can think of a couple of schools that "should" get T'd all the time.

justacoach Sat Sep 11, 2010 05:40pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by chseagle (Post 691913)
So, for clarification, teams can no longer run the full court length to reach their halfcourt for warm-ups?

If that's the case I can think of a couple of schools that "should" get T'd all the time.

Make sure you have your Fox40 and rules books handy. You wouldn't want to miss the chance to make a grandstand play, now would you?;);)


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