One T or two - if one, on who?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Judtech

I am just presenting how the scenario would play out. Some have said they would only give a "T", some said "Flagrant T" . SNAQ asked what would happen if nothing were done to the coach and the kid went out and punched the player. The response I gave was what would happen if you DID do something about the coach and the kid STILL punched him.
As for "loudly" I hate to split hairs but what is "loudly"? Is it a small gym with 8 people in it and everyone heard? Is it a big gym with 1000's of people in it and only I heard it? Did I catch the whole conversation? Is the coach not only yelling but being demonstrative? These are the things I take into consideration. None of which involves what the coach will think. I am cognisant of what the officiating board and state board think and I know that any ejection will get a thorough reveiw. Most likely the coach will complain about the ejection to "the powers that be". IMO, it is my job to have made sure that they don't have a leg to stand on. Obviously, I think this is a reasobable approach, and just as obviously some don't.

I think it's officiating in fear. Personally, I don't care if the state "upholds" my flagrant in this sort of situation. I will have done my job and slept well at night. If the state buys the coach's story, so be it. They will have my report. And if the coach has that much power and stature, it won't matter what the tape says anyway.

I don't reserve technical fouls for actions or words that are picked up on video tape. Would you call the flagrant if you knew there was no video tape of the game at all?

[Judtech]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I think it's officiating in fear. Personally, I don't care if the state "upholds" my flagrant in this sort of situation. I will have done my job and slept well at night. If the state buys the coach's story, so be it. They will have my report. And if the coach has that much power and stature, it won't matter what the tape says anyway.

I don't reserve technical fouls for actions or words that are picked up on video tape. Would you call the flagrant if you knew there was no video tape of the game at all?

Great point, and I personally make the differentiation between a "T" and a Flagrant/andor ejection. Despite my Mr Joviality persona, I used to be one that would rather tick off a coach more than help them out. This caused me more problems than not early on. Working with my mentor, the line I drew seems to work for me. Basically, if I give a T treat it like a foul, but anything more severe ask myself "Am I doing this to the coach, b/c I want to or b/c they deserve it." and/or "Will a neutral observer agree with my decision". While some may call that 'officiating scared' in my case it has really improved my game management and interaction skills

And you are correct about there being criminal verbal assault. However, in a sporting event, the bar is set rather high b/c of the nature of the environment. It is much lower in domestic violence cases or your local adult beverage consuming station.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Judtech

Great point, and I personally make the differentiation between a "T" and a Flagrant/andor ejection. Despite my Mr Joviality persona, I used to be one that would rather tick off a coach more than help them out. This caused me more problems than not early on. Working with my mentor, the line I drew seems to work for me. Basically, if I give a T treat it like a foul, but anything more severe ask myself "Am I doing this to the coach, b/c I want to or b/c they deserve it." and/or "Will a neutral observer agree with my decision". While some may call that 'officiating scared' in my case it has really improved my game management and interaction skills

I would only change it to, "would a neutral observer who knows everything I know agree with the call?" The simple fact is, sometimes coaches make comments that only we can hear that still have to be dealt with. The neutral observer in the stands may not hear it.
I just ask myself, "What would Bob do?"

Originally Posted by Judtech

And you are correct about there being criminal verbal assault. However, in a sporting event, the bar is set rather high b/c of the nature of the environment. It is much lower in domestic violence cases or your local adult beverage consuming station.

agreed.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I just ask myself, "What would Bob do?"

I ask myself, "WWESHD?" (What Would Earl Strom Have Done?)