OT-Article on Questionable Calls in NBA
 

Questionable calls have marred NBA Finals with Lakers, Celtics - Jack McCallum - SI.com

This guy obviously knows what he is talking about :rolleyes: It's a good read if you're looking to laugh.

Take this to the bank....

In any NBA final game:
1) the losing team and their local papers & fans will say that they lost because of the officials.
2) the winning team and their local papers and fans will say they won in spite of the officials.

The obvious solution is to play the damn game without officials and run a freaking poll every time something questionable happens. Or maybe let the players call their own fouls and violations.

No stoopid blue text intended either.

I like the 'call your own' concept. The question then becomes does the offense or defense call it? I played at parks/gyms where it was the offense and some were defense. I think OFFENSE would be could for the NBA, that way the players could still whine, and we would know who the 'soft' players really are!

I've been a proponent of getting rid of "fouling out" at all levels for years. There is an inherent randomness in foul calls that sometimes causes a guy who's only going to foul 3-4 times in a game to get 2 of those very early - at which point they sit, and this alters the strategy of that team to a degree FAR out of whack from the severity of a single foul. It's too big a penalty. A 2nd foul on your star in the first quarter is FAR more damaging than a 5th foul late in the 4th. That shouldn't be.

Instead - any foul over the limit (whatever that is at your level) is penalized as follows: Non-shooting, it's 1 FT and the ball. Shooting, 2 and the ball. Shooting a 3, 3 and the ball. This penalizes a team for letting a player over-foul, but doesn't completely change the complexion of a game when a player gets 2 in the 1st or 3 in the first half.

What I find great is that through three games in the series so far, with three separate crews, every game has had a large amount of fouls. You would figure the players and coaches would adjust. But as is always the case, it's just easier to blame the officials. :rolleyes:

As to the article, the writer has no idea what he's talking about. Since we have too many fouls being called, let's just make all block charge calls a no-call since as he put, "they're impossible to get right away." Except a competent official has no trouble with calling this...simple thing called refereeing the defense.

Reducing off ball grabbing? The complaint about the majority of the calls has been that it's been off-ball away from the action. Yet the author is suggesting to call more of these. If the author watched any of the games this series, he'd see that a lot of the calls that Celtics have receieved have been freedom of movement calls on defenders trying to hold and impede Ray Allen.

Other points brought up was allowing "slow-footed centers" to bang into the screener on pick and rolls. Basically let's allow our centers to run into screeners with no worries about fouls. That hasn't even been an issue in the Finals. As far as having players no foul out, I don't think we'll ever see this. And quite frankly, I don't see the need for eliminating the rule. Players should adjust to how the game is being called.

I am definitely in the wrong profession if that guy got paid to write that article. Great piece of journalism!

Yeperdoodle....
 

I've seen quite a good amount of NBA referee bashing by all the "talking heads" on many sports stations (ESPN, MASN, etc.) since the series began......you know, the usual. :(

I'm an official as well... and even I will admit these last 3 games were messy at best. It's pretty embarrassing when you make 3 OOB call in the last 2 minutes - and all 3 get reviewed ... and you missed all 3. But worse (to me) have been the phantom calls. I have no rooting interest in this series. But Ray Allen's "foul" in game 1 where he didn't even make contact with the offensive player was awful. Both of Kobe's early on were extremely iffy.

While 95% of what the article said was either nonsense or tongue in cheek (and if so, it was not clearly done that way), I do agree with getting rid of fouling out for the reasons stated above.

We've had summer leagues that got rid of fouling out, and the results are predictable. Now, perhaps that would be mitigated a bit by adding to the penalties, but I'm not sure. Example. Player has reached his limit and is about to foul a shooter. Suddenly there's no incentive for him not to just grab the shooter and prevent him from shooting.

I'm working an established summer league right now that has done it this way for years. No FTs except the last minute of the 2nd half too. A foul in the act is an automatic 2. If ths shot goes in, automatic 3 pts.

It's my first year doing this league, so it's different, but we have a running clock and the players know the drill, so there's no arguing and the play is up and down.

We, as officials, can sit a player down at our discretion if the we have a player consistently fouling. Haven't had one of those yet.

I really like it.

To be fair, on the 3rd review, after getting together and before going to the monitor, they DID award the ball to Boston. Replay did verify the call though I'm sure they were not happy that they missed the loose ball foul that lead to the ball going out of bounds. The other two replays were close and the first replay was near impossible to see in real time. And I don't see anything embarrassing about that.

Right, it works well in summer ball; when they can give us the discretion to sit a player (we have that in the leagues that do it here.) One league that used to do it now keeps track because the games got too rough.
That league doesn't shoot FTs until the 4th quarter. Before that, shooting fouls are one point and the ball. Fouls on a made basket are one point.

Perhaps the player shouldn't foul?

Your point?

Of course they "shouldn't" foul. There's a penalty when they do. I would just rather see teams be able to play their game, see players play the way they normally play. I think it takes away from the game and penalizes a team FAR more than the weight of the transgression when a called foul happens to be an individual's 2nd early foul.

And I would rather see the players adjust and stop fouling.

Heresy!

Heresy, I tell ya!

It's easier to blame the officials. :D

This can apply at ANY level.

That ain't journalism, Tex. It's just an opinion piece, nothing more.

I'm open-minded to eliminating the foul-out rule in favor of two-shots-and-the-ball, etc., but I still have a feeling that, were it put in place, contact would signficantly increase, and we would all regret such a move.

The thing that threw me off last night, though, was the block call on the play shown in the photo. All I could see was LGP, and it just makes it more difficult for us when we make charge calls on obvious plays like that.

And the writer wants a no-call? Why should the defense get punished for having LGP and getting leveled?

This Just In......
 

And so it goes......

Doc Rivers of Boston Celtics complains about refereeing, sends videotape to league office - ESPN

Are you talking about the play in the photo with Derek Fisher and Ray Allen? Cause Bill Kennedy most definitely came in with a charge from the lead position.

Well if we don't call it then it is not a foul!!!:p

Sounds like this forum.......
 

from the article:

"A dribbler drives, a defender steps in, both fall, and one or the other is charged with a foul, even though, if a thousand refs were polled, 500 would call "block" and 500 would call "charge."

OK, so maybe it would be 501-499 here. :p

If the dribbler was Kobe Bryant and the defender was Joe Benchwarmer, the poll of NBA refs goes up to 999 "blocks" and "Joey Crawford". :p

I could have my plays crossed. There was one similar to the photo where there was clearly LGP, yet a block was called on the Lakers. It really got to me, and I'm a Celtics' fan.

When such things are called blocks, it makes it more difficult on us, especially fighting the mentality that charging fouls rip off the offense. It's almost like a charge is some silly taboo in some people's minds.

Why do they bother sending tape? Do they think the league office doesn't have a copy?

These "public announcements" by coaches and players are getting totally out of hand. Phil Jackson's been doing it like, forever. Just trying to "game" the officials and get that one critical call to go their way........

I know. I just thought it was funny that they're sending a tape. It's like giving Jay Leno a car.

You're probably thinking about the play where Derek Fisher tried to take a charge on Rajon Rando. I believe it was on a fastbreak. I agree that Fisher had his torso in Rando's straight line path, but at the last second, Rando stepped and jump to the side and Fisher took the contact more in the side. I agreed with the blocking foul that was called.

Videotape? Do people still use those?

Warner Wolf does.

Did anyone see the 3 second call on Garnett in the 3rd period tonight? Boston inbounds the ball after a Laker basket, Rondo dribble up the floor. At the 20 second mark on the shot clock, "Tweet," 3 seconds.

The call was correct. Does anyone know why? :D

Was that the play where Mike Breen was saying the ball was two seconds in the backcourt? I have to give credit for the play-by-play guy actually knowing the rule.

I guess there's no "benefit of the doubt" if you're backing out of the lane on the three-count, at least not that time.

My Thoughts Exactly!
 

That's taking me back. Thanks JAR!

"Give me a break!"
 

"Let's go to the videotape."

Why was it correct?

I really didn't mind it that much, as I thought it was a better call than calling a foul on Garnett for displacing Gasol as violently as he did...but I'm not sure that makes the call "correct".

Didn't see that part of the game....was the initial pass to Rondo in the frontcount?

(I checked the NBA rules and their 3-second call does match the NCAA/NFHS rule of only applying when the ball is in team control in the frontcourt.)

The 24 second clock wasn't started until AFTER Rondo crossed the division line. We ran it back and watched it. I guess we aren't the only ones with slow clock operators.

And I agree. I told my two sons he was in there the entire 4 seconds but he got the call instead of the foul that coulda/woulda/shoulda been called.

Coach Rivers and Coach Jackson -- tell your players to STOP FOULING!!!!!! It makes for a much better game.

It is clearly a sign of bad coaching if you're best players continue to foul the other team so often they have to sit down and not play!

Sigh....:rolleyes:

It's the NBE, Jeff. The players do NOT have to adjust to the officials. The officials are supposed to adjust to the players. I think that's written somewhere in the players' bargaining agreement with the league. From the whining that goes on during just about every call, it almost has to be.

NBE officials get their direction as to how the league wants their games called from head office. Every freaking call is monitored and graded. But when the officials do call the games the way they're directed to, everybody blames the officials instead of the league. Go figure.

I gotta agree with Jurassic on this one. Jeff, your statement could be said to any local JV coach and make sense, but in the NBA, sadly, your words will fall on deaf ears.

I think jeffpea's point is that players keep whining about being in foul trouble. Rivers and Jackson need to stop empowering that and tell them, to shut up and play. I agree.

That is exactly what he was saying. They are acting like the actions of the players are totally unwarranted for fouls. And when those types of contacts are not called, then the players are complaining the officials are not calling fouls. Officials cannot win no matter what we call or do not call. The NBA officials are just dealing with it on a different level, we just deal with on a lower scale.

Peace

And that's exactly what I was saying also.

Maybe I shoulda used that stoopid blue font.


Naw, don't think so.

With Sincere Thanks ...
 

Thank you very much. I really wish that the Forum never heard of the "stoopid blue font". I'm sure that many would agree with me. Maybe we should have a poll?

I know what you were saying. But this has nothing to do with the league; it has to do with player's mentality in today's games at all levels. These guys are just higher profile. How many times do we hear that we called too many fouls but players are being called for very obvious things? It is like the number of fouls is the issue, not what the players are doing to be called for fouls.

Peace

We need polls more than we need blue font. :D

Peace

Right, as if there's a limit on how many times we should blow our whistles in a game.

My favorites from the ESPN piece

Over the three games the Lakers had 75 fouls Boston had 84.... OOOOH what a disparity Lets see....

What part of the rule book says fouls have to be even.... 9 fouls over three games, unless I did the math wrong this averages to be less than one foul call per quarter .... This does not even take ito consideration that Boston might have tried fouling...

The Lakers have shot 10 more FTs in three games..... OOOH once again one FT per quarter.
Rivers complains about "moving screens" because Boston got called for one and Lakers none? Yeah that one call has made the who difference? I would love to see the plays he's complaining about...

They complain about officiating when Ray Allen shoots 0-13 from the field (0/-8 behind the line) Perkins shoots

In the Game three loss Boston shoots .667 from the FT line and .438 from the field and wants to complain?

Even in game 4 (Boston wins) with Ray Allen shooting 4-11 and Rondo 5-15 and complain about the officiating. How about making a freaking shot?

Kelvin, you seem to be laboring under the misconception that the people making and printing these accusations care whether they are true, or even make sense.

The "Fix" Apparently Remains in.......
 

Game 5 - LA = 22, Celtics = 23

Game 5 - LA (visitors) 26, Celtics = 13

Hey, I thought the home team was supposed to have the advantage in foul calls and foul shots?

Somebody needs to get ahold of these refs and really lecture them. Better yet, publicly berate them.

This is getting totally out of hand! :rolleyes: