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icallfouls Tue Jun 08, 2010 05:37pm
NCAA Changes
 
Maybe I missed a previous discussion, but has anyone seen this yet?

"The Playing Rules Oversight Panel approved a proposal Wednesday that calls for officials to assess either an intentional or flagrant foul on a player who swings an elbow and makes more than incidental contact with an opponent above the shoulders in men’s and women’s basketball for the 2010-11 season."

A 6' PG who swings an elbow at 6'9" PF is not likely to make contact shoulders and above, while the same cannot be said for the opposite.

GoodwillRef Wed Jun 09, 2010 08:22am
I am sure we will see about 30 video clips about this rule before the season starts.

KMBReferee Mon Jun 14, 2010 03:23am
Good rule, almost similar to NBA (connect above the shoulders and it's Flag 2 + a game off, if I'm not mistaken). Also similar to the NFHS rule, minus the height requirement.

I'm surprised this rule wasn't in there before now.

Jurassic Referee Mon Jun 14, 2010 06:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by icallfouls (Post 680806)
Maybe I missed a previous discussion, but has anyone seen this yet?

"The Playing Rules Oversight Panel approved a proposal Wednesday that calls for officials to assess either an intentional or flagrant foul on a player who swings an elbow and <font color = red>makes more than incidental contact</font> with an opponent above the shoulders in men’s and women’s basketball for the 2010-11 season."

A 6' PG who swings an elbow at 6'9" PF is not likely to make contact shoulders and above, while the same cannot be said for the opposite.
Previous discussion was:

http://forum.officiating.com/basketb...ng-elbows.html

The parameters of what constitutes "more than incidental contact" need to be cleared up, which I'm sure they will be.

Jurassic Referee Mon Jun 14, 2010 06:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by KMBReferee (Post 681778)
Also similar to the NFHS rule, minus the height requirement.
It is? :confused:

There's no provision under FED rules that I know of that states that contact on an opponent resulting from excessive swinging of an elbow has to be either intentional or flagrant in nature. It's always been a judgment call, and one of the alternative choices under NFHS rule is a player control foul.

Somebody please correct me if I'm missing something somewhere.

JRutledge Mon Jun 14, 2010 07:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee (Post 681789)
It is? :confused:

There's no provision under FED rules that I know of that states that contact on an opponent resulting from excessive swinging of an elbow has to be either intentional or flagrant in nature. It's always been a judgment call, and one of the alternative choices under NFHS rule is a player control foul.

Somebody please correct me if I'm missing something somewhere.
You are completely correct. All we do is decide what we are going to call at the NF level. The College level wants these plays out of the game completely and has mandated it under the rules. I do not think high school players are as savvy as college players. High school players do many things without thought. College players tend to be much more deliberate and calculating, which is why I feel the rules are different.

Peace

eyezen Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 681794)
College players tend to be much more deliberate and calculating, which is why I feel the rules are different.

Peace
Without a doubt, and I feel a rise in faking contact is coming as well anytime an elbow comes even close to another player...but that is why they pay us the big bucks i suppose.

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Texas Aggie Fri Jul 02, 2010 09:36pm
Quote:
The parameters of what constitutes "more than incidental contact" need to be cleared up, which I'm sure they will be.
While not disputing that more information or guidelines are helpful, the statement speaks for itself: if you would call a foul on this play, it will be an intentional or flagrant foul. If the contact is incidental, there is no foul.

walter Sun Jul 11, 2010 07:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Aggie (Post 684389)
While not disputing that more information or guidelines are helpful, the statement speaks for itself: if you would call a foul on this play, it will be an intentional or flagrant foul. If the contact is incidental, there is no foul.
From camp, for NCAAW this year, if you were going to call a foul on the play, and the elbow contact is above the shoulders of the opponent, you MUST start with an intentional foul. You can then go to the monitor to determine if it is flagrant. If the elbow is moving faster than normal (i.e. excessively), flagrant should be considered right away. The key to determining whether to call the intentional is whether the elbow is moving at the time of contact. The body does not need to be moving, only the elbow.


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