Originally Posted by sseltser (Post 691363)

I think you are confusing the "dictionary" definition of "at disposal of" and the "rules" definition.

By rule, a ball which falls through the basket into B1's hands is not at the disposal of B1 until either:
- B1 walks out of bounds and faces the court, thereby actually being able to make a throw-in pass.
- or team B delays enough that the official deems that the team should be in position to make the throw-in and starts the count then.

Originally Posted by Scrapper1 (Post 691361)

I disagree with this. The ball can be at a player's disposal long before the official starts the count. When the ball clears the net after a goal, and a player from the throw-in team catches it, the ball is obviously at his disposal. He's holding it, so it's obviously available to him to begin the throw-in process. This is true even though the official usually doesn't start the throw-in count until the player is out of bounds.

Originally Posted by Scrapper1 (Post 691361)

The point of the clarification is that the non-throw-in team can be granted a time-out request after a basket even if the throw-in team player is holding the ball (ball is available to him), because the ball doesn't become live until it is available AND the official starts the count.

Originally Posted by Scrapper1 (Post 691361)

There had been some very technical debates about whether we should grant a time-out request from the scoring team in late game situations when the ball falls through the basket and into the hands of a player from the throw-in team. Technically by the old rule, we should NOT grant the time-out in that situation, because the ball became live as soon as it was at that team's disposal. But most of us DID grant those requests anyway. So the clarification was made to bring the rules in line with practice.

Originally Posted by sseltser (Post 691377)

4-4-7d: Ball is at the disposal of a player (B) following a made goal when it is available to him.

4-42-3: The throw-in (C) and the throw-in count (D) begin when the ball is at the disposal of the player entitled to it (B).

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee (Post 691381)

As per SITUATION #9 in the 2006-07 rules interpretations issued by the FED.

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 691438)

So, the player has to take the ball to a spot where they can make the throwin....then, and only then, is it availble for the throwin, at their disposal, and live.

Originally Posted by Nagy0716 (Post 675668)

2010-11 POINTS OF EMPHASIS

1. Rules Enforcement
2. Sportsmanship
3. Perimeter Play
4. Closely-guarded Situations
5. Principle of Verticality

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 675713)

I would agree, but the clarification in football (where this is much more of a realistic concern) was that all we do is send them off. After that, we are not involved. So if a player comes back in, it is assumed that they have been checked out. The only issue is if the player is deemed to be unconscious as normal. Your state or any state can take a harder line on this and require more documentation, but as it stands from football, this will be really on the coaches. The wording that came out is the exact same as other sports so far, but the application was not made very clear. Now it was made clear in football and it appears we really are not involved. We just send off a player we think has a concussion and move on. I agree we are not the best people to determine this, but in basketball it is a lot easier to see a player cannot function. In a sport like football it is very hard and the same kind of hand-eye coordination is not the same or as obvious considering many players in football might not be around the ball.

Peace

Originally Posted by ODJ (Post 691461)

Per IHSA, once we send a player off, we are responsible to send in a report to Bloomington, whether the player returns or not. Coach tells us when he returns.

Originally Posted by ODJ (Post 691460)

*6 ACT OF SHOOTING! is it just me or does it seem like 90 percent of the time in HIGHSCHOOL, refs are to quick to wave of the shot and not let them "continue" after they are fouled?

Originally Posted by zm1283 (Post 691474)

Yes. Too many officials wave off shots that should be shooting fouls, but because the ball is not leaving the shooter's hand, they don't award free throws. Part of the problem is that a lot of people don't read the rule book.

Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 691454)

I gotta disagree with this. I had a team last year deliberately delay in picking up the ball after a made basket in order to set up their press break. The ball was bouncing on the floor, obviously available to a player. I started my count. The coach immediately grasped this. "Gotta go! He's counting!"

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 691476)

Keep my full statement (and in context with my statement in the post just prior to the one you quoted) and you'll not disagree. I made it quite clear that a player who could have been OOB with the ball has it at his disposal.

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 691438)

Here is where you're making the error. You're making the assumption that catching the ball is equivalent to available. It is not.

Originally Posted by Scrapper1 (Post 691542)

I just have to disagree with this. If the ball falls through the net and a kid from the throw-in team catches it, it's available to him. I don't think it matters if the ball is inbounds or out of bounds, or being held or on the ground. If a player from the correct team can easily get the ball, that's "available". I don't see what else "available" can mean.

Originally Posted by grunewar (Post 675682)

Well then, you can't referee again until you come back with a doctor's note and have both coaches and the hot mom at the table clear you.......