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-   -   New WIAA Regulation for next year (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/58021-new-wiaa-regulation-next-year.html)

chseagle Sun May 02, 2010 11:10pm

New WIAA Regulation for next year
 
Looks like I have something else new to learn for next year. The WIAA Representative Assembly voted to use the running clock if the point differential is 40 or more, starting next year.

Adam Mon May 03, 2010 09:47am

Quote:

Originally Posted by chseagle (Post 675521)
Looks like I have something else new to learn for next year. The WIAA Representative Assembly voted to use the running clock if the point differential is 40 or more, starting next year.

Better start studying now, you don't want to screw this one up. ;)

grunewar Mon May 03, 2010 09:50am

OK, Humor Me Here......
 
What's to learn? How often does this happen during a season?

Just curious.

Raymond Mon May 03, 2010 10:09am

Quote:

Originally Posted by chseagle (Post 675521)
Looks like I have something else new to learn for next year. The WIAA Representative Assembly voted to use the running clock if the point differential is 40 or more, starting next year.

Less to do with training, and more to do with the discipline not to stop the clock.

bainsey Mon May 03, 2010 10:48am

CHS, does this vote make it rule in Washington, or is there one or two more steps that must occur before becoming a rule? Would this take place at all levels (high school, middle school, etc.)?

Mark Padgett Mon May 03, 2010 10:53am

Just a thought. In most of the rec leagues I work, there's some aspect of running clock. Either the whole game is played that way (usually with stop clock at the end if it's close) or running clock if the point differential gets large. All but one use the rule that, coming out of a timeout or at the beginning of the 2nd, 3rd or 4th quarters, the clock starts when the ball becomes live. That means you chop it when you hand the ball to the inbounder (or FT shooter following a TO), not when it's subsequently touched on the court on the inbound play. The theory is that if there hadn't been a timeout, the clock would be running starting at that point, except for the FTs, but I guess it makes sense that way, too since the clock runs during FTs in a running clock game.

You may want to check to see if this is how it's going to work for you guys.

rockyroad Mon May 03, 2010 12:53pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bainsey (Post 675574)
CHS, does this vote make it rule in Washington, or is there one or two more steps that must occur before becoming a rule? Would this take place at all levels (high school, middle school, etc.)?

It was passed by more than 60% of the votes, thus making it an amendment to the State by-laws. Iow, it's a done deal. And it applies to both Middle School and High School levels.

bainsey Mon May 03, 2010 01:18pm

Interesting, thanks.

So, during "running time," would there be no clock stoppages? Or would the clock stop in the last minute or so? Free throws? Subs? (I assume time outs, of course.)

truerookie Mon May 03, 2010 02:29pm

I believe in these types of situations. The clock with continue to run unless there is a time-out granted or injury.

rockyroad Mon May 03, 2010 02:56pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by truerookie (Post 675600)
I believe in these types of situations. The clock with continue to run unless there is a time-out granted or injury.

And I believe the way it is written stipulates that once you begin the running clock it continues for the rest of the game - even if the point differential drops below 40.

chseagle Mon May 03, 2010 08:16pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bainsey (Post 675594)
Interesting, thanks.

So, during "running time," would there be no clock stoppages? Or would the clock stop in the last minute or so? Free throws? Subs? (I assume time outs, of course.)

How I understand it the clock will only stop during time outs, free throw administrations, & between quarters.

Hopefully more information will be released concerning the regulation, so that everyone can know about it & get used to it.

Below is the amendment as it was being proposed

"52.7.0 NFHS Basketball Rule 5-5-3, utilizing a 40-point differential, will apply for all regular season & postseason contests. Beginning in the second
half, if the point differential is 40 points or more, the game clock shall run
continuously for the remainder of the game except for an official’s timeout,
a charged time-out, time between quarters, or the administration of
free throws.

Note: Current 52.7.0 would become 52.8.0

Rationale/Pros/Cons for HS Amendment #8:
1. Establishes a point differential rule in basketball in all classifications.
2. Current NFHS basketball rule 5-section 6-article 3 note allows state associations, by adoption, to modify score clock rules when agreed upon point differentials exist.
3. It is difficult to control team efforts when a contest is no longer competitive. Asking reserves not to give their best effort increases the chance of injury and is humiliating for both teams.
4. Often teams suit up only ten players, which make modifying play more difficult. In addition, many programs play their reserves for two or three quarters in junior varsity games, limiting the possible substitutions that can take place.
5. Non-competitive games compromise the spirit of the game, making it difficult to maintain good sportsmanship by both teams.
6. Preference is to speed up the game clock, rather than to terminate the game."

Adam Mon May 03, 2010 08:18pm

I wish they'd think these things through more when they implement them. What isn't spelled out (and never is) is when the clock resumes following a timeout or free throw. Is it done as normal, or as soon as the ball becomes live?

chseagle Mon May 03, 2010 08:19pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by grunewar (Post 675569)
What's to learn? How often does this happen during a season?

Just curious.

Since I've done scoreboard/timer operations, I've only seen a large point differential only once or twice.

It is, to me, very rare to see this large of a point differential..

Really there's not much to learn except for when the clock needs to be stopped &/or started.

chseagle Mon May 03, 2010 08:21pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 675629)
I wish they'd think these things through more when they implement them. What isn't spelled out (and never is) is when the clock resumes following a timeout or free throw. Is it done as normal, or as soon as the ball becomes live?

As I am reading & understanding it, the clock starts as normal (when chopped in/ball becomes live inbounds).

Adam Mon May 03, 2010 08:23pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by chseagle (Post 675631)
As I am reading & understanding it, the clock starts as normal (when chopped in/ball becomes live inbounds).

Based on what?

chseagle Mon May 03, 2010 08:36pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 675632)
Based on what?

That is until I read differently, I'm just thinking common sense about when the clock should start after a time-out.

SCalScoreKeeper Mon May 03, 2010 08:39pm

Enjoy it!
 
I firmly believe in this rule change and it will not require additional training for clock operators-It needs to be adopted nationwide.

chseagle Mon May 03, 2010 08:48pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCalScoreKeeper (Post 675634)
I firmly believe in this rule change and it will not require additional training for clock operators-It needs to be adopted nationwide.

Unfortunately, you haven't seen some of the scoreboard operators/timers we have up here. Some are still thinking of rules/regulations from 5-10 years ago & using those.

I do everything I can to keep myself up to date on the new rules/regulations.

Adam Tue May 04, 2010 07:39am

Quote:

Originally Posted by chseagle (Post 675633)
That is until I read differently, I'm just thinking common sense about when the clock should start after a time-out.

Your common sense could easily be nonsense to someone else.

To me, common sense would say to start the clock as soon as the ball becomes live following the events for which the clock stops. Basically, when the official starts his/her 5 second count for the throwin.

Others would say to start the clock as soon as the time out or free throw is over. Without official guidance, you'll get differing applications everywhere.

Note: this isn't a big deal either way, as you're only talking about, at most, a total of 10-20 seconds in a blowout game.

Raymond Tue May 04, 2010 08:15am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 675653)
Your common sense could easily be nonsense to someone else.

To me, common sense would say to start the clock as soon as the ball becomes live following the events for which the clock stops. Basically, when the official starts his/her 5 second count for the throwin.

Others would say to start the clock as soon as the time out or free throw is over. Without official guidance, you'll get differing applications everywhere.

Note: this isn't a big deal either way, as you're only talking about, at most, a total of 10-20 seconds in a blowout game.

I would say that unless stated otherwise the clock would start when it normally starts. The rule CHSEAGLE posted says when the clock is to stop. The rule did not state anything has changed as to when the clock is restarted.

Smitty Tue May 04, 2010 08:48am

With a 40+ point differential, is anybody going to really be splitting hairs on when the clock starts after a timeout? Must be the offseason...

bainsey Tue May 04, 2010 10:49am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 675653)
Your common sense could easily be nonsense to someone else.

How true. When some cry for "common sense," what they're really asking is, "How come everyone else doesn't think like I do?"

Having said that, I'm with CHS. Since the clock is always stopped on free throws anyway, why change chopping time in to something else we'd all have to memorize, including the table, coaches, etc.? I see simplicity in keeping things as is, unless we're told otherwise.

Camron Rust Tue May 04, 2010 11:43am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 675653)
Your common sense could easily be nonsense to someone else.

To me, it falls to the rules we already have that specify when the clock starts after a timeout unless they've provided new rules about when to start the clock.

Adam Tue May 04, 2010 11:48am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 675683)
To me, it falls to the rules we already have that specify when the clock starts after a timeout unless they've provided new rules about when to start the clock.

This makes sense, too.

To me, the running clock rule changes things. The clock is to run except for the exceptions (timeouts and free throws). When the exceptions are over, the clock should run again.

Again, it's not worth any heart ache since the number of seconds at stake is so small.

rockyroad Tue May 04, 2010 11:58am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 675685)
This makes sense, too.

To me, the running clock rule changes things. The clock is to run except for the exceptions (timeouts and free throws). When the exceptions are over, the clock should run again.

Again, it's not worth any heart ache since the number of seconds at stake is so small.

My question would be: When does the clock STOP? Clock will not stop on the whistle for a foul, but will be stopped during free throws. Soooo...I blow whistle for foul, give preliminary signals, run to reporting area, report foul and say "2 shots." Clock stops then? Clock stops when we administer the ball to shooter? Clock stops when preliminary is given at the spot? When exactly will the clock operator STOP the running clock?

Rich Tue May 04, 2010 12:14pm

I guess I never understood the need for a mercy rule in a game with a clock.

But thank goodness we have one in baseball.

SCalScoreKeeper Tue May 04, 2010 12:25pm

Here is our rule in California

Once margin reaches 40 or more points in the 4'th quarter game clock will run only stopping for timeouts!

rockyroad Tue May 04, 2010 12:33pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCalScoreKeeper (Post 675690)
Here is our rule in California

Once margin reaches 40 or more points in the 4'th quarter game clock will run only stopping for timeouts!

I would assume it would also stop for an injury or blood on the court. I really don't get why WA had to add the free throw part of it...they only have 10 seconds to stand there anyway.

SCalScoreKeeper Tue May 04, 2010 02:24pm

Yeah-I thought that went without saying but it does stop on any official's whistle for injury or blood on the floor.

Adam Tue May 04, 2010 02:44pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCalScoreKeeper (Post 675690)
Here is our rule in California

Once margin reaches 40 or more points in the 4'th quarter game clock will run only stopping for timeouts!

Here in the land of little oxygen, our metro league voted to adopt the mercy rule at the JV level only.
30 points or more in the 2nd half.
It does not stop for free throws.


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