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-   -   How's this for a pre-game meeting? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/57846-hows-pre-game-meeting.html)

Mark Padgett Sat Apr 10, 2010 10:42pm

How's this for a pre-game meeting?
 
Went to work three HS games for spring league today. Prior to my games, there was a meeting of all the refs with a coordinator from the league. He went over the rules which, at first, were the same as the past few years there, i.e.: 22 minute running halves, two 30s per half, extra two points plus shots and possession for unsportsmanlike technicals. However, he surprised the group when he got to the point of discussing uniforms. We were directed to allow virtually anything except something that would be a safety issue.

He told us to ignore non-compliant T-shirts, illegal numbers and other similar items. In fact, he said he knew some of the teams might not ever have numbers and we were just to ask players for their names when we called fouls. He also said he didn't even care if a team's jerseys all matched, as long as one team was wearing "generally dark and the other generally light" - and that's a direct quote. He said kids could wear wrist bands anywhere on their arm and also shooting sleeves.

He was certainly right about the jerseys. One team I had displayed about half of their shirts with numbers on the front only and half with numbers on the back only. Another team had three players with white T-shirts and no numbers. Another wore varying shades of green ranging from forest to lime. One kid didn't have a number but had the words "Robby Stopper" written with marker on the back of his T-shirt. Apparently, he knew some kid named Robby on the other team. In my first game, one of the teams started three kids with red jerseys, one with purple and one with black.

The good news was that we didn't care if we had to take extra time to identify who committed a foul, because we had a running clock.

BTW - one team had a kid who was 6'11" (the scorer was his dad and he told us how tall the kid was) and his team didn't run even one post play for him the entire game. He wound up with 8 points, almost all on offensive rebounds and his team lost by 15.

MS games tomorrow. I wonder what those kids will be wearing?

Nevadaref Sat Apr 10, 2010 11:17pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett (Post 673335)
Went to work three HS games for spring league today. Prior to my games, there was a meeting of all the refs with a coordinator from the league. He went over the rules which, at first, were the same as the past few years there, i.e.: 22 minute running halves, two 30s per half, extra two points plus shots and possession for unsportsmanlike technicals. However, he surprised the group when he got to the point of discussing uniforms. We were directed to allow virtually anything except something that would be a safety issue.

He told us to ignore non-compliant T-shirts, illegal numbers and other similar items. In fact, he said he knew some of the teams might not ever have numbers and we were just to ask players for their names when we called fouls. He also said he didn't even care if a team's jerseys all matched, as long as one team was wearing "generally dark and the other generally light" - and that's a direct quote. He said kids could wear wrist bands anywhere on their arm and also shooting sleeves.

He was certainly right about the jerseys. One team I had displayed about half of their shirts with numbers on the front only and half with numbers on the back only. Another team had three players with white T-shirts and no numbers. Another wore varying shades of green ranging from forest to lime. One kid didn't have a number but had the words "Robby Stopper" written with marker on the back of his T-shirt. Apparently, he knew some kid named Robby on the other team. In my first game, one of the teams started three kids with red jerseys, one with purple and one with black.

The good news was that we didn't care if we had to take extra time to identify who committed a foul, because we had a running clock.

BTW - one team had a kid who was 6'11" (the scorer was his dad and he told us how tall the kid was) and his team didn't run even one post play for him the entire game. He wound up with 8 points, almost all on offensive rebounds and his team lost by 15.

MS games tomorrow. I wonder what those kids will be wearing?

Hmmmm....I hope that means sweatbands and not those rubber-support whatever cause-bands popularized by Lance Armstrong a few years ago.

grunewar Sun Apr 11, 2010 06:52am

Oh, thos pesky uniforms.....
 
This weekend, JUSTACOACH, two of his boys, and I were one of many officials who reffed in the 2010 THINK PINK Tournament of Champions Girls Tournament here in NVA. 132 Teams from all over the northeast. Some pretty good ball and some not so much.....

But, uniforms? Pink scrunchies, hair restraint devices, socks, headbands, wristbands, shoe laces, and even sneakers! One girl even had pink drawers on under her uniform - funny story!

BillyMac Sun Apr 11, 2010 06:55am

"Just the facts, ma'am"
 
I normally don't officiate AAU games unless they're associated with a camp, however, our local IAABO board, as well as all the other local IAABO boards in the state of Connecticut, have recently started assigning AAU games (a major story in itself which will probably show up on a "fictional" Law and Order episode ripped from the headlines), so I thought I'd give it a shot; get a little running in, have some fun with some of my buddies, stay on top of my game in the off season, pick up some extra cash, etc.

I show up in the gym a few minutes before my partner. I'm observing the layup lines. One team has more than half its girls wearing orange undershirts under a white jersey. Both teams have girls wearing headbands of multiple colors, with only a few being white, black, beige, or the predominate color of the jersey. These are not typical recreation team "T-shirt" uniforms, but real uniforms that would make many high school varsity teams in these parts envious. I speak to assistant coaches from both teams pointing out the equipment problems. They both get together and decide to switch their reversible jerseys so that the team with the orange undershirts are now wearing orange jerseys. Our local board has instructed us to ignore the changing of uniforms near the bench area unless it's done in an unsporting manner, even for our high school varsity games, so that's not an issue for me.

At this point the head coach of the orange team walks up to me and says, "Why are you making eleven year olds obey equipment rules? Back home, I'm a high school varsity coach and I can see the purpose of the rules on that level, but these are eleven year olds. You're not being evaluated, or anything, so why bother?". I reply that this is my first game of the weekend, that I was was aware of a few timing, timeouts, and bonus free throw rule changes, but was not aware of any other changes from NFHS rules. I continued that if anyone from the AAU organization sponsoring the tournament advised me to ignore some uniform, or equipment, rules, I would be pleased to oblige.

Not a good way to start the game. I'm pissed at him. He's pissed at me. And we haven't even tossed the ball yet.

I would have loved to have taken a sarcastic tone with him but I took the high road and just walked away from the situation. I could have asked him for a list of all the NFHS rules that he would like me to ignore during his game? I could have asked him why, since he was a high school varsity coach and knew the rules, didn't he tell his players to pack a white undershirt and and orange undershirt for all games, and explain how to wear them? Why didn't he tell all his players to decide on a "legal" color headband, and all wear the same color headband for the entire AAU "season"? I could have told him that I always put in my best effort, even when I'm not being evaluated (which is true).

I hate being the "Fashion Police". Damned if you do. Damned if you don't.

BillyMac Sun Apr 11, 2010 06:58am

And You Know This, How ???
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by grunewar (Post 673341)
One girl even had pink drawers on under her uniform.

http://thm-a04.yimg.com/nimage/b02dee7be1752dea

BillyMac Sun Apr 11, 2010 07:02am

Moving Down In The World ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by grunewar (Post 673341)
JUSTACOACH, two of his boys.

JUSTACOACH's family dog plans to take the test in the fall. After that, JUSTACOACH will be the fourth best official in his house.

grunewar Sun Apr 11, 2010 08:13am

Make that five.....
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 673344)
JUSTACOACH's family dog plans to take the test in the fall. After that, JUSTACOACH will be the fourth best official in his house.

JUSTACOACH is already #4 - his oldest son was away at school and didn't do games this weekend....

Juulie Downs Sun Apr 11, 2010 09:45am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett (Post 673335)
Went to work three HS games for spring league today. Prior to my games, there was a meeting of all the refs with a coordinator from the league.

What league? What assignor? e-mail me.

BillyMac Sun Apr 11, 2010 11:29am

Were You Ever Interviewed By Chris Hansen Of Dateline NBC ???
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by grunewar (Post 673341)
One girl even had pink drawers on under her uniform.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 673343)
And You Know This, How ???

grunewar: Hey? You never answered my question. Are you on some kind of list? Parents with inquiring minds want to know. Also, if you're working a game, and Chris Hansen of Dateline NBC walks out of the locker room with a camera crew, don't leave the gym, for any reason. The cops are always waiting outside. Always. Every single time. And why do they wait for you to leave? Is there some kind of medieval sanctuary law at work here. Is Quasimodo the legal adviser to the show?

Mark Padgett Sun Apr 11, 2010 11:52am

One question I forgot to ask yesterday has to do with timeouts. As I stated in the OP, each team gets two 30s per half and they don't carry over. We all know that if a team is out of timeouts and then requests one during a time in which it may be granted, it's a technical. What if they've used their two in the first half and then request one still in the first half? Should we call a technical?

I know it's kind of a petty question, but what do you guys think? I'll get a definitive answer from the program later today when I go to my games.

BillyMac Sun Apr 11, 2010 12:08pm

Black And White ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett (Post 673365)
What if they've used their two in the first half and then request one still in the first half? Should we call a technical?

NFHS 10-1-7: Team Technical: A team shall not: Request an excess time-out. PENALTY: Penalized when discovered. Two free throws plus ball for division-line throw-in.

It sounds like the league directors changed NFHS 5-12-1 (timeouts), not the rule on technical foul penalties. Just my opinion.

Mark Padgett Sun Apr 11, 2010 12:45pm

Here's another one I should ask on pretty much the same subject. Is a technical for requesting an excessive timeout considered an administrative or an unsportsmanlike technical? It matters in this league because there's an "extra" penalty if it's unsportsmanlike - the other team gets two shots, possession and two points.

grunewar Sun Apr 11, 2010 03:09pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 673364)
grunewar: Hey? You never answered my question. Are you on some kind of list? Parents with inquiring minds want to know. A

Will send you a PM.

BillyMac Sun Apr 11, 2010 04:09pm

My Guess ???
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett (Post 673371)
Here's another one I should ask on pretty much the same subject. Is a technical for requesting an excessive timeout considered an administrative or an unsportsmanlike technical? It matters in this league because there's an "extra" penalty if it's unsportsmanlike - the other team gets two shots, possession and two points.

NFHS 10-1-8: Team Technicals: A team shall not: Commit an unsporting foul.

Could that mean that all the other articles under 10-1 (Team Technicals) are not unsporting acts, but are something else, like administrative infractions?

Nevadaref Sun Apr 11, 2010 06:43pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett (Post 673371)
Here's another one I should ask on pretty much the same subject. Is a technical for requesting an excessive timeout considered an administrative or an unsportsmanlike technical? It matters in this league because there's an "extra" penalty if it's unsportsmanlike - the other team gets two shots, possession and two points.

The chart on page 71 of the NFHS rules book lists "excess time-out" in the "Administrative" box.


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