transitioning from 2 whistle to 3 whistle
 

So I'm going to a camp this summer that's all 3 whistle. I've immersed myself in the manual, and watch as many games as I can but I'm hoping you guys can shed some light on what are some of the big differences are?

What was the learning curve like? What are some of the mistakes you first made? What do I need to know that the manual DOESN'T tell me.

Thanks.

PS If anyone has FIBA experience, that would be great since that's what I'll be using.

A few suggestions:

1. Let the clinicians guide you. They're used to people who are new to 3-whistle, so be honest with them about where you are and let them help.

2. Don't worry too much about missing a rotation. A missed foul is worse than a missed rotation.

3. In my experience, 3-whistle comes pretty easily with just a little practice, especially if you move a lot in 2-whistle. That means you have good ball awareness and are used to getting a good angle.

4. As C, don't be afraid to initiate rotations when the ball comes to your side above the FT line extended. Some folks (around here at least) seem to think that only lead can initiate a rotation.

5. At camp, when you're not on the floor watch others and try to anticipate the positive and negative criticism that the clinicians will give them. That tests your mechanics knowledge. But remember that theory and practice are quite different animals: it'll still feel a bit awkward when you start. And that's OK. ;)

Thanks. Last time I went to one of these camps we were assigned during off games to man the camera. The clinicians wear a wireless lavalier mic and you have an ear piece so you're able to listen to the other campers constructive criticism.

I can't emphasize this one enough. While it's important to use peripheral vision to know where your partners are positioned, your main focus should be on any competitive match-ups in your PCA whether or not the ball is in your primary.

Good luck!

For what it's worth, I got thrown into an unexpected 3-man situation two months ago.

I was working the typical 2-man crew in a JV game, when my partner tore his Achilles in the second quarter. I ran up to the locker room to alert the varsity officials, who had just arrived. My partner and I finished the half somehow (he stayed near the division line, I tried working lead on both ends...whew!).

In the second half, I was expecting that only one would fill in, but the veteran pair announced to me that we were going 3-man. I'm a 5th year official, and I hadn't taken the 3-man training, figuring I wouldn't need it until next year, at least. I haven't really looked at the 3-man mechanics in the book, so I got uncomfortable quickly. I admit it was a bit disoriented at first, as my partners had to tell me where to go and how to get there. I only had a vague idea what the center's PCA was. In time, though, the pointers settled in, and I got the flow of it.

Simply put, if I can figure it out with zero training, you should be fine after studying the book, and a lot quicker than I did.

I'm not really sure you actually "figure"d out 3 Man in one half of a basketball. It took me 2 camps and about 15 games for me to even attempt to say I've figured it out.......but to each his own.:cool:

It still amazes me that officials new to 3 person think they have it all figured out after working half a game or even 10,20, or 30 games. I guess that is just the world we live in, everything is done now and at a rapid pace. I have been working 3 person for about 12 years, and am now comfortable saying that "I get it."I may be a slow learner, but I do think we all have the opinion that we learn quicker than we do. For any official to think they skilled and adept at all of the nuances of 3 person mechanics after less than 2 or 3 seasons (at minimum) or after 50-75 games (at minimum) is a less than accurate statement.
Be careful with that over inflated opinion we have concerning our knowledge and understanding of 3 person. To know the basics is one thing, but to be able to work it as it should be worked is quite a different story. It takes practice, practice, and more practice to instinctively react to the changing flow of a game to really work the game as it was intended with 3 officials. Be careful of all the self inflicted back patting on your skill level. the bottom line is that it really takes years and hundreds of games before we call the game without thinking of calling the game. Where's my primary? Should i have put a whistle on that play? Was i correct in rotating as soon or as slow as I did? Can I be trusted to call my primary? do I reach out of my primary when I should and when I should not?
Interested in your thoughts. thanks

Mikeref - I've only been doing three-man seriously for less than a yr and I certainly understand where you're coming from.

I know it's going to take me a while to develop the same confidence and abilities I have after several season's of two-man. How long? Well, that is dictated by each individual and their abilities....but for me, I'm certainly not their yet and agree with you that it will take some time.

As I have said before though, kudos to my Association. They have taught me and brought me along at a very steady pace. I will probably work and watch a great many three-man games during our spring and summer leagues and be more confident than ever going into the next V season during the winter of 10/11.

This is why Wisconsin has trouble accepting 3 man crews. Each conference decides if they want 2 or 3 man crews and the state tourney is all 3 man. So guys work both 2 and 3 man troughout the season and without dedicating to all varsity 3 man you can't become proficient at Officiating 3 man games because it takes a lot of games to get it.

My first 3 man game, after roughly a jillion 2 man, I struggled with the feeling that I was in somebody else's way for most of the game. This feeling, obviously, was without merit. Call the game.

I've done two or three off season's worth of 3 man.....the feeling you just described fits the way I felt too. It's going to take a lot of repetition and patience for me. One day it will click, though, I'm sure.

Question....I watch a lot of college ball at various levels. Is the basic rotation the same as NFHS rotation? Seems like what I've watched on TV and in person at the college level is different than what I've done in 3 man. Don't want to waste time focusing on that part of 3 man in the college game if it's not applicable to NF.

The rotations are the same. The switches are different (FED and NCAAW do it one way; NCAAM another).

A good thing to remember at a camp is not to go out walking in the woods alone at night. You never know what you may run into!

http://hockeymomablog.files.wordpres...ardofoz460.jpg

When you rotate as the lead, don't forget to referee the paint as you move across the lane.

When you're at T or C and a shot goes up, don't bail and start moving toward half court. You're there to watch rebounding action. Trust yourself to get back on a break if that happens. Those two things were something I frequently goofed on when I started out.

DLH.....What do you notice about NCAA rotations that seem to differ from NFHS?

How do the switches differ, if you don't mind breaking it down. Thanks.

In NFHS, report the foul and remain table-side as trail.

In NCAAM, report the foul and go opposite as center.

Fed seems more efficient....wonder why NCAAM do what they do?

for me I thought i was a little bored and didn't have as much to do since my piece of the pie just got smaller in 3 crew, but I soon realized it was just the opposite. You need to work harder and can concetrate on your area more in 3 crew. You have another official to work with and figure out. you are covering many different parts of the floor durring one posession.( due to rotations) I have to keep talking to myself about my PCA and what is giong on there. self talk has helped me alot to keep my focus so I dont' get lost. As has been mentioned, don't forget to call the game. the rest will come with time. BTW camp is the place to mess up. that is what you are there for. Our clinicians told us exactly that. don't try to be perfect, just call ball.

Leave the positions out since you can easily be the C tableside (in NFHS or NCAAW) or the T opposite (in NCAAM) after garden-variety fouls.

Maybe ask some questions but listen when the clinicians give you pointers. I had a couple say totally opposite things but no point in getting in a disagreement or having an excuse. "Shut up and listen" When your center step down toward the rim for the rebound and watch your primary but if you see a foul missed that might be out of your primary(not by much) then don't be afraid to call it. Be careful there as you can get chewed out for both.

Essentially, I've determined that the best result from getting opposite advice from clinicians (sometimes back to back) is hearing both sides of it and allowing myself to develop my own philosophy. Clearly, that only goes so far, but I'm more amused by "opposing clinicians" now than anything else. Used to annoy me....

I agree. They don't like Ya Buts. just listen

also get sleep, don't stress out about the games and just try to take in what you can. I kind of burned out my first camp but my understanding and techniques really improved as the camp went on. For first time campers it can be a big adjustment so just try to keep positive even if you make mistakes.

Based on your posts, I'm guessing it was this kind of camp.

http://www.tngenweb.org/scott/images...irl_scouts.jpg

The learning curve for me really was not that high, as I came along at a time when I was learning both at the same time. That being said to understand 3 you must understand 2 and why they add another official. The main thing that anyone that works 3 Person is to know the rotations and switches. After that it is just officiating. The manuals often to do tell you that part when to rotate and when to not rotate. At least not one that I have read so far.

Peace

Two Out Of Three ...
 

It's worse here in The Constitution State. 95% of our regular season games are two person. All of our league and conference championship tournaments are two person. Early rounds in the state tournament are two person games. It's not until the state quarterfinals that three person crews are used. There's a lot of pointing going on in these quarterfinals as the guys try to help each other out. I saw a switch this year, with just a common foul, and no change of possession, where the trail moved all the way to the endline, kept on circling around, and ended up as the new trail, only on the other side of the court from where he started.

It's going to be worse next year. For several years we've worked a scholarship holiday tournament, at several sites, for free, with three person crews. Next year the officials will get paid, and our board will make a large donation to the scholarship fund. With home teams at several sites paying for officials, do you think that they're going to want three person crews?

I've worked 2-man for a couple years, and worked some 3-man HS games this year. After reading the manuals, the biggest challenges for me were:

1) seeing the rotations of my partners. For example, in 2-man I really focus on my primary, but in 3-man you also have to keep a peripheral vision on your partners. I found that to be difficult, and it would break my concentration on my primary.

2) as C or T in 3-man, your primary changes regularly. So it was a challenge initially to instantly adjust to the new primary when the L would rotate and you all of a sudden had a whole new area to cover.

The bottom line is that I felt that I was not officiating as well as my 2-man games, because these two things were distracting me during the game.