School alleges discrimination by Philly refs
 

Articles from yesterday's and today's Philadelphia Daily News. I'm not from this area -- anyone from the Philly region have any light to shed on this?


Math, Civics and Sciences founder alleges 'discrimination' by referees | Philadelphia Daily News | 03/23/2010

Local coaches disagree with MC&S allegations | Philadelphia Daily News | 03/24/2010

My $.02 -- it must have been very strong discrimination if the school complaining lost by 30 :cool:

Put this into perspective. Her comments were based on hearsay. She wasn't even at the game. Oh yeah - her team lost by 30. Of course it was the fault of the officials. Does she really think that in an area like Philly, officials can keep getting assignments if they have shown a track record of prejudice?

http://blessingthecrush.files.wordpr...our-grapes.jpg

I thought that this is why certain assignors become so successful. They strike back office deals with various league commissioners and assign their minions accordingly to seal the deal. Of course, this all 'off the record'. :D

My favorite quote...

"I am requesting an investigation by the PIAA District 12 Chairman and that you review the DVD, interview with players, parents and staff regarding this disrespect and treatment of our players and parents."

How about we interview the officials instead? According to the article, their report showed no signs of unfair or racist officiating.

Being close to that area the school is complaining about officiating outside of the Philly area and it was regarding a state quarterfinals game that they did lose to a very good team.

I love the last line of the article. But to be fair, UNI has one black player ;)

-Josh

At least these players are learning the valuable lesson that if you don't succeed, play the race card and make excuses :rolleyes:

-Josh

Did the article say that the team MC&S lost to didn't have any Black players?

So you're saying this article is suppose to bring out the fact that not only are the official's racist but they are unfairly being discriminatory to just one school's black population but not the other? Come on, we both know what's going on here

-Josh

I would like to see associations make rules that any player using the N word to teammates or opponents will get a T. Not the place for it.
And maybe some calls went against the team but if your team and players are acting like clowns and not respecting the game from the start then don't expect to get calls from the refs. Refs should try to be neutral but at any level bad mouthing them and not playing the game right will result in more calls going against the team.

WHOA! Hold the boat here! You are telling me that you allow the N-word to be said in your contests? I don't care who they are or are not saying it to, "T". It's an inappropriate word, period

-Josh

The article made no mention of the actual racial make-up of RCC. It can be intelligently inferred that RCC is predominantly White, but to assume the team is 100% White could be an example you playing the "race card". If you go to the RCC website, the first picture you see is of an African-American student who will be representing the school at the Grand National Forensics/Speech tournament in Omaha. Maybe you can drive up there and ask him about the racial makeup of the basketball team. ;)

I don't believe MC&S's assertion about discrimination. But why do people who use the phrase "race card" always assume a situation is made up of 100% of one group on one side and 100% of another group on the other?

Claims of discrimination (even unfounded ones) are not always purely black & white. (pun intended)

Eventually, we will all get our heads screwed on straight and realize that thanks to the recent genome project and other scientific studies, there is no scientific support for what we now call "race" - only commonality of genetic tagging. It's a scientific fact that a white male has more in common genetically with a black male than he does with a white woman. If that's the case - and it is - how can their be a white "race" or a black "race"? The entire concept that people have inherited behavioral traits based on their skin color is hogwash.

People are just people. I look at people as individuals and I assume they are all good people until they prove me wrong. Period.

OK - I'll get down off my soapbox now. BTW - my best man at my wedding 31 years ago was a black male and we're still good friends. Also BTW - I know it's not politically correct (and I'm certainly not) but I don't hyphenate the word "American". Every citizen of this country is an American - end of story.

OK - I'll really get down off my soapbox now.

no, and don't assume that. I've heard it though in other sports including very loudly at at college football games.

:rolleyes: Do you ref?

alleged discrimination
 

Since Mrs. Joyner wasn't at the game she really can only go on hearsay.
But in all fairness why is it that during the state finals there is never enough officals from the Philly area, maybe sometimes a familar face would prevent some of theese allegations. You mena to tell me there are no refs from Dist 12 that qualify to do these games..........

Piaa where are the philly refs?
 

Philly teams from the Public League always get officals they've never seen before, thats no problem, but there has to be some officals from the Public League that qualify to do these state games?

Does that include other officials bad-mouthing them from the stands?

http://forum.officiating.com/basketb...nightmare.html

Just wondering.....

Sad, ain't it?

Sure, but why would they be scheduled to work a game where one team was from the league they work? The state likely sends them out somewhere else (and probably should).

Now, if the crew had never worked this caliber of ball that would be another story.

A few years ago, there was a coach in the area here from one of the big schools in the city that got a crew of rural-area officials that probably didn't work a Division 1 game all season. Those officials called a very different game (pretty much any contact was a foul) and the city team ended up losing the game. The coach blasted the officiating afterwards in the press and, while I would never condone a coach doing so, I could understand some of the points he was making about how the officials get assigned to games. Let's face it - if you've never worked a team from a city conference where there's above-the-rim, physical play with D1 prospects on many of the teams in the conference, you aren't ready to learn how to do it in a state playoff game.

Maybe if this person in the article wasn't so quick to scream "racism" issues like this would've come out in this story and there would be something for the PIAA to actually look at and see if there was something to improve in the assigning process. Instead, they come off as whiny crybabies who don't like that they got thumped in a game against a very good team.

Wow. And he still doesn't get it. Explains a lot of his posts on the tourney as well.

Good points regarding style of play. Years ago, my high school girls team was in the semifinals for state in Illinois. They were from the Chicago area in a tough physical conference. They played a downstate team. The officials that night were all downstate, rural officials. Good officials, but called a different game than Chicago area kids are used to. Early fouls took their studs out of game and although a heavy favorite, lost. Even as a fanboy, this was before I started officiating, I understood the difference in this game. As a coach, I might have emphasized the possibility of a different flow to game based on where officials were from. A foul is a foul can mean different things to different people.

And that would be smart coaching on your part. All you can really hope for as a coach is consistency from the officials. It's up to you and your players to adjust to how loosely or tightly(or badly, for that matter) the game is being called.

As long as the same calls are being made consistently at both ends of the court, no one should have any complaints about the officiating imo. In that case, the officiating just isn't a factor in who wins or loses the game.

Your recitation of the science (or lack thereof) underlying race is undeniably true, but also completely unhelpful. That there may be scant biological difference between two people of different "races" does nothing to change the perceptions based on that difference.

As long as perceptions hinge even a little bit on differences we can see (and make no mistake, they do), "race" is going to be an important and meaningful category. That it is a cultural rather than biological category doesn't change that.

Racists aren't racists because they think the differences they perceive are biological. Racists are racists because they perceive meaning in physical differences in the first place. "Biology-based" racism was and is simply an ad-hoc justification for prejudices already firmly held. You may be able to dispose of that justification, but that will only be followed by a new one. Honestly, do you think you're going to convince a bigot of the error of his ways by giving him a genetics lesson?

(And writing "end of story" at the end of a post is bullying behavior. Period;) )

Of course not. That would be impossible because if he's truly a bigot, he's too stupid to read, let alone understand something like science.

"And maybe some calls went against the team but if your team and players are acting like clowns and not respecting the game from the start then don't expect to get calls from the refs. Refs should try to be neutral but at any level bad mouthing them and not playing the game right will result in more calls going against the team."


So you think that comment is wrong? Seems basic to me and you see it all the time. NBA for instance and I've been to a bunch of games where that happens. If you don't think that occurs then you are ignoring refs like Crawford and others who give out T's much more freely(doesen't make them bad refs or the whole NBA ref scandal which only someone completely ignorant would deny there wasn't any truth to it.
As for my NCAA comments people can disagree about that line violation but the refs MESSED up on that last play where they didn't put time back. Others here have pointed that out as well.

somewhat off topic but it had to do with race, there was an article about flash mobs in Philly in the Nytimes today. From reading it most of the teens involved are from the inner-city parts.

Three questions

1) Your premise is that "players are acting like clowns and not respecting the game from the start then don't expect to get calls from the refs"... but then you explain your explanation deals exclusively with TECHNICAL fouls. Does it not stand to reason that if players are acting like clowns and being disrespectful, that then they would get Technical fouls?

2) How is the players getting technical fouls NOT getting calls from the refs? I guarantee you if I or 99% of referees give a player a technical foul and the next time down they go up for a shot and get fouled, I'm still calling that foul .
3) You throw Joe Crawfords name out there as "evidence" -- how many technical fouls has Joe Crawford given this year?

I was thinking of the Dirk ejection and mixed up Crawford with Bill Kennedy, easy mistake:). Different story but just saw this.
NBA Referee Bill Kennedy Fined for His Antics, Union Cries Foul | Bleacher Report

Yeah tech are a separate issue. I think many refs will call a foul that favors a player or team that had been given a T but I will say that if a team before is showing that they are undisciplined, constantly arguing calls, then it MIGHT lead to refs calling more fouls against them or not calling fouls when they could go either way.

That story is a "column" written over a year ago... so its the only thing you can think of in the last year? And how many techs does Bill Kennedy have THIS year?

Your fan perspective is lacking any substance... Are you saying that you (I honestly can't believe you are one based on your comments on here but will give you the benefit of the doubt) as an official will give more fouls to a team that is complaining rather than call a fair and consistent game. If so, please sign your name and let us know your association so we can make sure they are on the same page with you.

Thanks.

Ah, the Bleacher Report. Probably the most anti-official blog I've seen. What a credible source.:rolleyes:

Well, it's as credible as the person who cited it.....:)

So your answer is "no," then?

There is a difference between race and ethnicity. Being Black is my race. Being African-American is my ethnicity. And since many in this country call themselves Italian, French, Irish, Russian and Mexican, I think it is only right and makes since to label myself what I know I am. I am a decedent of African, not a descendant of America. There were only one group of people that were genetically from this country and it was not people that look like me or you. But the one thing I cannot do like many of those who are not Black (and there are many Blacks that can go back to other countries BTW), I cannot trace my heritage directly to a "tribe" or Klan (which they are really called BTW) like you and many others could. So to keep a since of my heritage and culture, I choose to call myself African-American. If I could I would consider myself Nigerian-American or South African-American like a famous actress can. And when I go to the World Cup I could cheer for my home country if they were participating (I know a joke is coming), but I cannot do that. And it matters to me that the people that I come from were not allowed to hold citizenship and were slaves. So no, I will never just be American. I cannot trace my background like a fellow official friend of mine who knows how is name was changed to reflect coming to America, rather than hold on to the language his Grandfather spoke. And all of that is important when it is obvious that a lot of my values did not come directly and only from this country.

Peace

All In The Family ...
 

I was born in the United States of America, as was my father, and my grandfather. On that level I consider myself to be an American. My great grandfather, and great great grandfather, were born in Ireland, so on that level I consider myself to be Irish American. Homo sapiens arose in Africa and migrated out of the continent around 50-100,000 years ago, so if you go back far enough in my family tree, I can be considered to be African American. In fact, JRutledge and I have a common ancestor, Mitochondrial Eve, the most recent common matrilineal ancestor from whom all living humans are descended. She is generally estimated to have lived around 200,000 years ago, most likely in East Africa.

So JRutledge? Since we're related, can I borrow twenty bucks?

off topic
a bit too detailed at times but a book called Arc of Justice is quite good about race in America. So is Contempt of Court
Amazon.com: Contempt of Court: The Turn-of-the-Century Lynching That Launched a Hundred Years of Federalism (9780385720823): Mark Curriden, Leroy Phillips: Books

If you give me $1000, then we are cool.

Peace

where's Antoine Walker when you need him?

I am not sure he has that kind of money. ;)

Peace

Giving your statement some thought, I'm going to add on to my ethnicity, I'm going from American to Broke-American.

Jeff, thanks for that explanation. That makes a lot of sense to me and I can respect that.

I call myself American because it'd take up a line and a half to accurately describe my lineage. Answering questions 8 and 9 on the Census this year was rather interesting.

Also, $1000 in exchange for $20? Maybe you're of Nigerian Royalty. How's the e-mail business going? :D