kansas vs. UNI illegal substitution?

[CoachFred]

Please correct me if I am wrong. I was shouting at the tv and haven't rewatched it, so I might not remember exactly, but this is how I remember it.... UNI was taking the ball out close to the end of the game under Kansas' basket and Kansas substituted in their pressure defense squad for their offense squad. UNI threw the ball long and it went out of bounds without anybody touching it. Kansas then was able to take the ball out of bounds underneath their basket. They then substituted back in their "offense squad." No time ran off the clock. I thought that once a player leaves the game, time must run off the clock before he can re-enter. I am suprised that the UNI coach didn't catch this, I believe that Kansas scored on that posession as well. Did anybody else notice?

[Fathertime]

I was in the arena and caught that as well. They removed one of their 3 point shooters and put him back in.

[CoachFred]

What a game to go to....unless you are a Kansas fan. I am glad somebody else caught this. I am sure the UNI coach was too concerned with what was going on with his team imploding to notice Kansas putting their shooter back in.

[btaylor64]

I don't know the rule in college but is it possible that bc this is a change of the team who possessed the ball that the sub is allowed??? Just wondering.

With that being said. That was the most well officiated last 5 min. of a game I have seen in college basketball!! They made the right calls at the right times with no reserve and care who is who in the game. Mike Nance especially put on a clinic in the last 2 min.

[alillard88]

Per the NCAA Rule Book (Rule 3, Section 4, Article 13)

Art. 13. A player who has been withdrawn or replaced by a substitute may re-enter
the game at the next opportunity to substitute, provided that the game clock has been
properly started after the withdrawal or replacement.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by btaylor64

I don't know the rule in college but is it possible that bc this is a change of the team who possessed the ball that the sub is allowed??? Just wondering.

Change of possesession doesn't matter....only the clock starting.

You could have a sequence of several fouls/violations on throwins and/or FTs all before clock starts and anyone subbed out along the way would have to remain out until the next opportunity after the clock starts.

[KCRC]

Originally Posted by alillard88

Per the NCAA Rule Book (Rule 3, Section 4, Article 13)

Art. 13. A player who has been withdrawn or replaced by a substitute may re-enter
the game at the next opportunity to substitute, provided that the game clock has been
properly started after the withdrawal or replacement.

Just out of curiosity, how is this rule enforced? Most scorekeepers, based on my experience, do not track each and every substitution. The officials certainly have other things to worry about. What if UNI's coach would have pointed out the situation to the R, but then KU's staff says "no that wasn't him that just came off the floor"? If the scorekeeper can't help, how would the situation be resolved?

[jdmara]

Originally Posted by KCRC

Just out of curiosity, how is this rule enforced? Most scorekeepers, based on my experience, do not track each and every substitution. The officials certainly have other things to worry about. What if UNI's coach would have pointed out the situation to the R, but then KU's staff says "no that wasn't him that just came off the floor"? If the scorekeeper can't help, how would the situation be resolved?

At the DI college level, every substitute is tracked when they leave and enter the game.

-Josh

[KCRC]

Originally Posted by jdmara

At the DI college level, every substitute is tracked when they leave and enter the game.

-Josh

Thank you. So, is it then the responsibility of the scorekeeper to bring any illegal substitions to the attention of the R?

[jdmara]

Originally Posted by KCRC

Thank you. So, is it then the responsibility of the scorekeeper to bring any illegal substitions to the attention of the R?

I previously have done stats for a DI program in both football and basketball. It would be difficult to figure out, honestly. The officials/coaches/scorer would have to recognize it first, then they could check with the stat keepers to see the substitution list. From the two programs that I've worked with, the stat keepers are different entities than the scorebook. They do collaborate after the game however (and sometimes at halftime) and then submit the stats to the NCAA.

-Josh

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by KCRC

Thank you. So, is it then the responsibility of the scorekeeper to bring any illegal substitions to the attention of the R?

KCRC, something to add to your officiating repertoire--when bringing in subs mentally note the number(s) of the player(s) leaving the game.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

KCRC, something to add to your officiating repertoire--when bringing in subs mentally note the number(s) of the player(s) leaving the game.

Yep. Especially late in the game when this type of substitution is common. I've caught it a couple of times.

[jdmara]

Originally Posted by jdmara

I previously have done stats for a DI program in both football and basketball. It would be difficult to figure out, honestly. The officials/coaches/scorer would have to recognize it first, then they could check with the stat keepers to see the substitution list. From the two programs that I've worked with, the stat keepers are different entities than the scorebook. They do collaborate after the game however (and sometimes at halftime) and then submit the stats to the NCAA.

-Josh

I inquired and the "scorebook assistant" (next to the scorebook) does keep a running list of subs as well as the stat keepers.

-Josh

[Adam]

I've caught it once. B1 commits a foul and coach pulls him out after the first free throw. Second free throw is made and the horn buzzes. I turn as I beckon the subs in and notice B1 coming back in. I sent him back.
Coach: "I was just testing you."

[eyezen]

Originally Posted by jdmara

At the DI college level, every substitute is tracked when they leave and enter the game.

-Josh

Correct - And sometimes below as well, typically they have the computerized play by play to reference if the issue comes up.

It is my understanding this is one of the jobs of the alternate during the conf tourney's and beyond to oversee.