Ref. responds to fan
 

At a boys 14U game last night... close, competitive, game in a fairly small gym. Bleachers on one side, opposite the table, with a sparse crowd but lots of cheering. (No personal interest in this one, as I was there early for my daughter's JV game after the boys 14U)

Mid 4th quarter, R is trail near the table and calls travelling on a drive to the basket. A fan mid-way up says "he get's two steps ref!" Everyone could hear it, but it didn't strike me, personally, as excessively loud or demonstrative. (more background... can't remember any other audible criticism from the bleachers to the officials during the game...)

From across the floor near the table, R says directly to the parent (with volume that cannot be missed) "o.k., if you want to embarrass yourself, I'll tell you what he did. He picked it up and took a step, and then he took two more!" R turns around to go the other way, and the game continues.

I watch the crews more than the game sometimes, and soak up the education the folks on this forum offer. I'm new here and to officiating, so I sure haven't seen or heard everything, but this was definitely new. It struck me that this comment from R to fan was very awkward and out of place. Am I wrong in that thinking?...

1. The fan was a moron.
2. The ref would have been better off ignoring the fan.
3. I'm assuming 14U means it's not a school sanctioned game; all bets are off.

We're human too. We do/say things we wish we could take back later. I had a moment last night doing military intramural ball I would like to take back.

I really should get involved in that.

maybe

If you truly want to learn how to be a better official from watching other officials, don't use rec league officials as your point of reference. Instead, go to a high school varsity game and pay attention. For the most part, rec league officials do not have the training or experience to be taken as mentors.

As a fairly new official myself, I posted a thread 3 yrs ago about interacting with the fans. The consensus was new official = NO. So I still don't, however, I have worked with some veteran officials who sometimes do...and are successful at it. Maybe someday I will be able to know when you can and can not...but for now, I don't. If a fan gets to abusive then call game mgmt to take care of it.

Edit: Rec league only, never seen it in a Varsity game

I do it first because I spent over 20 years of playing military basketball and this is one area of officiating where I am truly doing it to give back to the community.

Secondly, I definitely prefer it over kiddie ball. Even though the talent level is sometimes lacking I'm still reffing grown men who can make athletic plays and the play is definitely physical. So I'm still required to use the same judgement on advantage/disadvantage as I would in HS/College games.

Thirdly, it's a true test of your game management skills. Last night I would give myself a D- for how I handled one particular situation. But a lesson learned that I will take forward with me.

I hear you and agree. This was actually private-school ball and I'm all but certain these guys were local assoc. chapter guys but not sure.

Doesn't matter how many years you've been doing it; nothing good comes from talking with the fans (or anyone in the stands).

It looks bad and will never lead to anything good happening.

[QUOTE=JPNY25;667428]+1

From what I've learned, ya' never know who that fan knows or who else might be in the crowd observing your behavior.

It's always best to ignore the fans. After you've been officiating for a while, it's amazing how the fans actually blend into the background and become nearly invisible anyway.

With fans you can't get it trouble for something you don't say!! Having said that I did have a nice interaction with a grandmother over the weekend. She said I was doing a fine job and hoped I would keep it up in the second half!! I asked her "How much is it worth to you?" She had this:eek: look on her face!! I told her that I bet she was a good cook, she said she certainly was, and I told her a good meatloaf is worth several calls. In lieu of that a batch of oatmeal raisin cookies would do!! She got a chuckle out of it as did the fans around her!! Of course, if I ever made a call against their team the rest of the game, they would say "That is one less cookie for you!!" SOrt of hillbilly Soup Nazis!!

We've all been in situations where we were just itching to say something, to put a fan in his place. Most of us refrain 99.99999999991% of the time. However, the guy who falls into this trap isn't necessarily a bad official; just human.

I agree in principle that we should not talk to fans but we should avoid saying always and never unless we understand when you night have to talk to fans. I agree that this is dangerous territory but I have learned depending on the level and situation talking to a fan might be OK. Usually that is very rare but I have seen it done in the right situation. This did not appear to be the right situation at all but sometimes the lower the level and the less people in. attendance might dictate this. And most of the time I have talked to fans is in a very non controversial manner. After all we are human and not robots. I feel sometimes we shod show that we are human. But I would never advocate arguing with fans. You cannot win there at all. But if you say something that will make folks laugh you might just win them over or get a positive result.

Peace

No, you should not interract with fans. I will say that it is much tougher to ignore in non-sanctioned, weekend/rec basketball. Often there really isn't game management around and often you work a number of games in a row and you get get tired of the stupid comments. Also, since there are aften fewer fans at those games, the few idiots are easy to hear and find. I had more than my share of comments for fans back when I worked that stuff, and I really don't miss doing those types of games anymore. They are great places to work on mechanics and such when you're new, but I've given them up for the most part.

How would everyone handle a sitiation where a fan(s) are verbally sparring with players? Had this one a few weeks ago in a moderately rough.....wait for it......rec game.

This is where I might say somthing to a fan especially if an adult or even kid is saying something directly to a player. Also much of this would depend on if and where the GM is located and how much they can and will handle the situation. But most HS or college games this is not an issue. It might be in an AAU game or some other non-sanctioned event.

Peace

Notify site admin if you think it is something that needs to be addressed.

I pretty much (almost) never interact with fans. I am in the "you can't quote silence" camp on this one.

That even goes as far as tolerating them much further than most officials. I simply do not care what they say to me, and pretty much ignore everything.

I've only ever had three fans tossed, and in two cases GM actually handled itm and in one I did (which was likely a mistake).

One case a fan was threatening to me, another a student got up and stepped onto the court trying to get into a fight with a player, and the last a mother told her son to hit another player.

If they are going to interfere with the game, they have to go. Other than that...they paid their two bucks to come act like a monkey - I let them.

But sometimes you just can't help yourself. Many years ago, when I first started, jh girls game. Ball went out of bounds right in front of blue team fans. (all 25 of them) I said "White!" They all, in perfect unison said "Whaaaaaaat??"
I looked up at them all, and slowly, clearly said "Whiiiiiiiiiite!"

Several of them actually laughed.

8th grade girls game last weekend, A1 to inbound in front of parents. Her dad is yelling at her about some bad plays. A1 turns around and says, really loud, "SHUSH!" Some of the parents laugh. There's a timeout. I'm standing there and say to the parents, "Did she really say 'Shush'? I thought my grandmother was here." They laughed again and one of them said, "She could have said something nastier". I replied, "Then I really would have thought my grandmother was here!" That brought out some pretty good laughs.

Sometimes talking to the fans is fun. ;)

I'm more in Rut's camp and Mark's. I never argue with fans over calls. If there is a fan who might be stirring the pit out of ignorance, I have been known to say that Ohio has a rule that you are only allowed to yell at the ref if you know the rule. It usually gets a laugh from loudmouth's neighbors and shuts him up. (Disclaimer) NOT ALL THE TIME do I do this. YHTBT.

Also, while I do get paid for my expertise, it's not why I do this. I do it because it's fun. I like to interact with the students during deadballs.

One of the most satisfying things to do is to get a kid, whose team is getting clobbered, to smile. :)

Dude, blue font.

Excellent, dear Snaqwells!:D

I one time said to a student who had been constantly razzing me and my partners (all in fun of course), I said to the kid, "If you talked to me as much as you talked to me, then you might have girls sitting next to you instead of these guys." The fans got a kick out of it and it stopped the kid from being silly. I also did not say so everyone could hear, I said this right before putting the ball into play and got a good laugh from the people around. And it even changed the kid's behavior the rest of the game. And I only engaged the kid because he had been calling me personally during dead ball situations and was trying to be funny about how good I looked or that was a great call when it was in favor of their team. I would not have done this if the kid was hostile or angry. There is a time and place for everything.

Peace

The reaction was definitely unprofessional. Can you imagine if NBA or college refs responded everytime someone had an issue with a call?

First off, the statement by the fan should be ignored. Fans are 1. biased and 2. Don't usually know the rules. The demonstration by the R probably did nothing to change this and only drew further attention which may have egged on the fans. I know its hard in a small gym where you can hear everything, but we need to continue to be professional in all circumstances.

Fans are 1. biased and 2. Don't ever know the rules.

Fixed it for ya'.

As I said, since I'm not doing this for the money, I'm not paid to be anything. I'm there to get the game played and have fun.

I didn't say make him laugh, I said smile. You don't have to say something funny, you can say something nice. You are paid to be a human being out there.

Not that I have ever done this, but certain refs I know if being heckled by a fan in the first or second row would station themselves in front of the fan during a stoppage of play and when a player threw the ball to them, they would accidentally miss it.

Or you can just stand directly in front of them as much as possible.

Not that I have ever done this.

or allow noxious gaseous excretions from their person:o

Had a partner that did the "Taco Bell Express" lunch before our F boys game. He had a couple of obnoxious front row parents giving him crap call after call. Next thing I know, they are clearing the area at the next dead ball.

The Burrito Supreme must've been talking back...:D

Ew.

That's just what we need ahead of March Madness. Fart jokes.