Awkward Jump Ball Administration - Foreshadowing....
 

Last Night B8th Graders. I'm R. Do Captain's and Coaches Meetings, etc. Team's come out and are shaking hands and setting up to start game. Me, TWEET! "Everyone hold your spots" and I go to administer the jump ball. A11 ("star player") won't "get settled" in position around the circle and as he moves, his defender follows him. I give this a few seconds and then I say "Son, find a spot and keep it" and he finally did. But it took a good five to ten seconds of pre-game maneuvering.

The case book says:

6.3.2 SITUATION: The referee is ready to toss the ball to start the game. (a) A1 who was on the center restraining circle backs off; (b) B1 moves onto the
restraining circle into an unoccupied spot; (c) B2 moves off the circle and goes behind A2 and is within 3 feet of the circle; or (d) B3 moves off the circle about 5 feet and moves around behind A3 and A4 who are occupying spaces on the circle. RULING: Legal in (a) and (d), but a violation in both (b) and (c). Moving off the restraining circle in (a), and around the circle when more than 3 feet away as in (d), is permissible. It is a violation to move onto the circle as in (b), until the ball leaves the official’s hand, or into an occupied space as in (c), until the ball is touched. The violation by B results in a throw-in for Team A. (4-3).

Has anyone had a situation like this and invoked - TWEET! "B Ball" and then set the arrow, as a player would not get settled or violated? Just curious as it was awkward.

Guess the start of the game was a precursor of things to come....turns out A11 was a bit "troubled." He is the "star" and his buddy, the other "star" isn't on the team any more because he is academically ineligible. So A11 takes it upon himself to play 1 on 5 ball much of the night. I called him for an easy charge late in the 3rd quarter - #5. He goes and sits on the end of the bench - by himself. As I left the gym a parent/adult (unsure if it was his parent) was talking to him about being selfish, trying to do it all himself, not sharing the ball, etc....

Your quoting the case play reminds me of why I no longer say "Hold your spots, everyone." That's not required by rule, so why should I require it. Kinda like "Wait till it hits the rim!" on a free throw.

I've not had to call the violation, nor seen it called.

Flip A Coin ...
 

Bad advice to rookie officials. A player on the circle can back away from the circle at any time, before, during, or after, the toss, or the touch.

This is similar to the advice given by a few officials before a free throw, "Let it hit the rim", when in fact the rebounders can legally enter the lane when the ball touches the rim, or the backboard. I have no problem with preventative officiating, but we should at least use the correct terminology, which will prevent those pesky rule myths that seem to keep popping up.

Edit: I was typing as mbyron posted. mbyron, remember that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery

Thanks for the advice. I was told by an Official with more experience to say hold your spots before moving forward to initiate the jump. I see how that can be confusing to the players, and myself.
Do you normally say anything to alert the players to the fact that you are going to initiate the jump?

"(Whistle) All right, here we go. (To the jumpers) Don't steal it."

The whistle for me is the indication I'm about to move forward and toss it up.

Telling them to hold their spots is like telling the non-shooters to go behind the division line during a FT for a technical or intentional foul.

I say two words before I toss the ball, as I'm walking into the circle.

"White." As I point towards white's basket.
"Red." As I point towards red's basket.

I stopped doing that....is it in the manual? I haven't looked it up.

OK, I do that, too, but before I blow my whistle and step into the circle. I also notify each team's captain that I'm about to toss. THEN, I blow my whistle, etc. etc.

Not sure, I haven't either. I've gotten rid of a bunch of other stuff, like "hold your spots" on the first of multiple free throws. None of my partners or evaluators has said a word about what I say before the toss. Of course, it might be that they have bigger fish to fry with my game.

Point Me In The Right Direction ...
 

I also do this, with two additional steps. Before I say, "White", I point to White's bench, and then point to White's basket. Before I say, "Red", I point to Red's bench, and then point to Red's basket. To start the game, the bench points, and the basket points, should be opposite direction points. This is to make sure that the team's are going in the right direction to start the game. Nothing more embarrassing than to start the game going the wrong way. Of course the "pointing" would be in the same direction to start an extra period (Mark Padgett: See 4-17 for a definition).

Of course, I wouldn't say, "Red", if the visiting team was wearing some other color.

Like or-ange or pink? :D

Please don't do this. :(
Not only is it not proper procedure according to the NFHS manual, but it looks condescending. It seems like you are treating the players as if they are in elementary school. At the HS level, the players know which basket they are headed towards, especially at the varsity level.

All that you should do is check that the jumpers are in the correct halves of the circle, check with the captains that their teams are ready (A simple "Ready guys?" will suffice.), blow the whistle, and then go toss.

Most people don't notify the captains, but it is in the manual.

My experience is that referees who point direction for each team prior to the toss also tell the captains that we are playing the black line all the way around at the pregame meeting. :rolleyes:

No need for the frowny face, Nevada, I was actually re-thinking this little bit.

I only had one partner give the black line speech this year, but a few point. Frankly, I didn't pay that much attention to whether my partners pointed as R.

My :( was no reflection upon you. It merely demonstrated how I feel about a referee taking that action prior to the toss.

I do pay attention because I also note if they tell the players to hold their spots. :(:( (Double frown to those folks!)

I guess I just feel that the pre-toss point lacks a certain professionalism and gives the impression to the coaches that the official is a newbie. It strikes me the same as crossing one's body to point direction on an OOB call instead of using the other arm.

JMO

I stopped doing it b/c I noticed the officials whose work games I aspire to work don't do it.
:)

Sure they do.

Does the manual tell you which sock to put on first? :rolleyes:

I agree. The big boys don't do that. It is for rec leagues and little kiddie games.

You should have the same scorn then for those who don't notify the captains before the toss and for those that don't whistle in subs. After all, both of those items are in the NFHS manual.

Edited to add: Before I'm accused of being snarky, I don't really do this often, but there are games (mainly small school (in rural areas) games) where I do. I *have* had jumpers line up the wrong way in varsity contests.

That said, you're right. It's really an unnecessary thing and for someone who's captain's meeting averages about 12 seconds (seriously), it seems weird I'd add anything extraneous like this.

Glad I asked the question as now I will start my games a bit differently as I don't want to come off as a "newbie" or "rook".

My question still remains though -

Let's say hypothetically, you do TWEET! "Ready?" (nothing more) and W11 will not get set. He moves about the circle with his defender following him..... three seconds, five seconds, seven seconds......and you are standing there ready to jump the ball.

Do you say something to him? Do you immediately TWEET! Blue ball! What action do you take (if any) and how long do you wait?

Thanks for the interesting input as I will alter some of my "bad habits."

They should be horse-whipped.

Horse-whipped, I tell ya!!

How come nobody ever says somebody should be cow-whipped? Or poodle-whipped? I've spent many hours pondering that question. Many, many hours. Almost as many as the number of hours I've spent not worrying if somebody got an OOB call right but didn't point exactly by the manual.

Gnu-whipped?:confused::confused:

First, you should say "ready" and then tweet. If someone is still moving as / before you say ready, then they aren't.

If someone is moving, I would use one of the following:

1) "As soon as A11 is ready, we can start."

2) "You need to find a spot and not change."

I'm glad you left those poor beavers off your list. I don't know if I could take another mental image of a beaver gettin' whipped. :eek:

You know, this is one argument I actually agree with both of you. :D Nah, I'm not running for political office, but there really is validity on both sides. First, I agree with you that getting the call right is the most important thing. I even had one supervisor tell me the story about how he was marked down on an evaluation once because he didn't have his thumb tucked in properly when he pointed! And, no mention was given as to whether any of his calls were correct. Since then, when he observes officials, his most important criteria is whether the calls are correct.

There is also a reason we have a specific set of signals and mechanics, so we can effectively communicate with players and coaches, no matter where we are, or what gym we work. Plus, the better we look, the more likely we will be perceived as professional and that we know what we're doing. If I work with an official that is sloppy with their mechanics, how do I know they aren't sloppy with their rules knowledge as well? If they don't want to take the time to learn the proper areas of coverage and signals, chances are they aren't going to know some of the rule basics as well.

That said, if I work with an official for the first time who steps into the circle saying, "Red this way, white that way", chances are they probably also just got there 10 minutes before, already wearing their collared shirt and belted pants, and I know I'm going to have issues all game. But if I work with someone for the first time who got there early, had a good pregame, looks sharp, shoes shined, then steps into the circle and says the same thing - I'm not going to think twice about it.

Procedures, signals, and mechanics are all part of the total picture, along with rules and judgement.

Sure you could. Why should today be different than any other day?

Umm...gave it up for Lent?

Or maybe they are an IAABO official, which relies on its own mechanics manual, not the one the HFHS publishes.

IAABO mechanic for jump ball for the referee:
"Verbally and by directional signal indicate the teams' basket."

So in these parts, the official who does not do that is seen as the one who arrived 10 minutes early, doesn't care about prescribed mechanics, etc.

Point taken. This example was not meant to be a slam on IAABO mechanics, but rather an extention of the example given by Nevadaref's response to Snaqwells. You can insert any other non-approved mechanic in my response.

Naw, you gave it up because you're beaver-whipped.

Shut up.

(At least I didn't give saying that up for Lent.)

Actually, this makes me feel better, as I am in an IAABO state. I could have sworn I'd seen it in the manual, but took NV's word that it was not. BayState's post got me to double check and sure enough, there it is. Maybe that explains why the partners I've seen do that mechanic don't also talk about black lines and hand checks during the captains' meeting.

It's funny how it's considered childish and elementary school by someone in a non-IAABO area and it's just considered good, solid mechanics in an IAABO area.

Like I originally thought, it's much ado about nothing.

As usual, what color toga do they wear where you work? Don't wear blue when everyone else is wearing green.

Personally, I don't judge when a partner has a minor idiosyncrasy. I'm more interested in how he calls the game.

I know some people think it's quaint when I notify the captains before the toss, but I usually just get a laugh when I say "hey, it's in the manual."

Why, cuz everyone will think he's sarcastic? :rolleyes:

Do They Ever Not Go All The Way Around ???
 

No I don't.

Actually my local association made a big point about sounding the whistle when bringing in subs this year, so I do hold some scorn for those in our group who refuse to do as they have been asked and instructed.

As for the captains part, my feeling is that once the teams began thinking that they could have more than one captain on the floor, any rule pertaining to captains became useless. What if the team decided to send the entire squad to the pregame captain's meeting? What if they sent all of the seniors on Senior Night and there were 10 of them? Unfortunately, the role of the captain has been greatly eroded over time. I feel that way because I like the history and tradition of the game.


What if I consider IAABO officiating mechanics childish and fit for the elementary school level? :eek:

Only 4 can come out for the coin toss.

You won't get argument from me. At first glance, IAABO appears to be redundant and unnecessary, but then again I've never lived in an IAABO area.

I do, and I can't argue.

I vote for Bob's mechanics....I would do the same thing

De Ja Vous.....
 

So, last night I have this same team again (see post 1). My P and I have our pregame and I tell him the events of Monday night.....

I do the opening tap. What do you think A11 does? Yep, same shenagigans from Monday. He won't get settled. I invoke Bob's - "As soon as A11 is ready we'll start."

My P has had enough (he is very senior to me and told me he has done some college). He calls A11 over and chats with him.

Game begins. Game is not close. A is losing big, again. Late in second quarter. TWEET! I have an intentional foul on (say it with me) A11. He prevented a fast break by grabbing the player around the shoulders. Almost flagrant. Clear the lane. Shots. Ball. etc.

Late in third quarter. A11 was on the floor for a loose ball at the division line. B24 came up with it and as he breaks to run down court, from his chest laying on the floor, A11 extends his arm and trips the player. TWEET! Intentional foul. Shots. Ball. etc.

Talented kid with issues. Hope he figures it out soon. :(