Time Out Request
 

Indiana HS game, 6.9 seconds left. trailing team cuts it to one and requests a time-out they do not have. Refs ignore request. almost 5 seconds go off clock and leading team inbounds and is fouled with 2.2.

A poster on another board and I are arguing this one. I keep saying the coach can only request the time out and if the refs judgement is that you don't have any to use and the other team would be put at a disadvantage if they granted it and T'd up the requesting team, thus stopping the clock, then there is no obligation to grant the request.

Help me settle this one please.

A timeout request which is properly made and recognized must be granted, whether the team has a timeout or not.

period

There's no HS rule saying you would not grant a timeout request because it might "put the other team at a disadvantage". Are you sure the refs didn't grant the request because at the time the coach requested it, the other team already had the ball at their disposal? That's what it sounds like to me.

The only thing the refs would ignore in this situation would be a delay of game warning, which would stop the clock. There is a rule for that.

There's a case play, I believe, along the lines of what JAR posted. Grant the request, assess the technical foul, no judgment involved. (I'd look it up but I'm away from my computer.)

Actually, the team requesting the time out was complaining that the other team was delaying by not picking up the ball, they let it roll around a little and then picked it up and immediately chucked it in. The inbounder was kind of straddling the ball, not touching it backing up with it watching team mates and when he saw one open he picked it up and passed it in.

It happened pretty quick, but I think the ref started the 5 count as soon as the inbounding teams player went out of bounds and was about 5 feet from the ball.

If the count had started, the ball was considered at the disposal of the team, so it was proper to ignore the request, but all this has nothing to do with whether the team had a timeout left or not.

Once the official started his count the ball was considered at Team A's disposal and Team B should not be granted a time-out.

ASk CHris Webber what happens in the NCAA tournament when you call time out and you dont have one...

2001-2002 NFHS Basketball Interpretations

SITUATION 12: Team A has used all allotted time-outs. The scorer notifies the referee, who properly advises the Team A coach at the beginning of Team A’s last called time-out. During play later in the game, A4 attempts to call time-out when he/she is being pressured by B2 and 83. U2 ignores the request by A4. RULING: U2 should honor the request of A4, even when this would be a time-out in excess of the number allotted. Game officials do not have discretionary authority to assist players in avoiding rules violations. (2-7-6; 5-12-2)

The only thing I would amend if I were editing this ruling would be to insert the words "or coaches" in the last sentence: "Game officials do not have discretionary authority to assist players or coaches in avoiding rules violations."

1. If the timeout request was made prior to the official starting his count, it should have been granted.
2. If it was made after he started the count, ignore it.
3. If it's too close to tell, I'd ignore it.

Why was the team complaining if the official had started his count? Morons.

Seems like you answered your own question. :D

Question about the procedure after the excess TO is granted.

Calling (granting) official goes to the table, reports TO. Then what?

Here is how I would do it. First notify the coaches that a TO is granted but we will have a technical foul coming out. Then, blow whistle and signal technical foul (very understatedly, no need to make a big flashy deal of it).

Is this outlined somewhere? Is it even necessary to blow your whistle and signal the T?

No.

There is some question as to whether to administer the 2 FTs before or after the time-out. I'm not sure that I've ever seen any clear guidance on this.

Was just going to ask for guidance on this one as I realized I'm not sure.

Anyone remember what happened on the Weber/Michigan technical? I sure don't, and I also realize it may or may not be correct.

I lean on the side of having the TO, then administering the FTs. The TO was requested and granted first, that then caused the technical foul. Plus (the more I think about it) a team could request a TO after a technical were called and before the throws were administered and it would be granted and administered prior to the throws.

Yep, I've talked myself into administering the TO first, then the technical foul.

Really? Shoot the FTs after the TO.

That's pretty clear guidance.
;)

No higher authority exists.

Now, I'm not sure how I'll handle it when he disagrees with me.

Why was the team complaining if the official had started his count? Morons.[/QUOTE]

I am a moron, and am very offended.:p

I am a moron, and am very offended.:p[/QUOTE]

You sure that's how it's spelled? :D

http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/n/U/moran.jpg

Wow, complete with Mullet and everything.

Actually sums up most Cardinal fans I know. :D

(I know this is off topic, but aren't you getting goosebumps knowing we're getting close to the start of the Annual Baseball Thread?!?)

Anyway, back to the TO's. Doesn't Bob's advice follow the NFHS "standard procedure" applying penalties in the order they occured? So, in the case of the excess TO request, the TO was granted, then it was determined it was an excessive TO, so it makes sense the penalty comes after the TO.

I think we have a lot of recent arrivals in the forum. Would you like to explain?

Well, I would, but it would take way too much time explaining how there was one esteemed member who used to post here frequently, but now only comes back to start his Annual Off-Topic Baseball thread, usually starting it on Opening Day. I would have to get into how it's been a tradition for the last several years for many of us non-baseball people to post about MLB teams, interesting occurances, and simple "Nyeh, nyeh, my team's better than yours!" comments. I would even have to mention how even though off-topic threads are usually frowned upon here, this one has been allowed to occur, and usually ends up being the most-replied to thread as it stays open throughout the season. It is also a great diversion through the normally slow basketball off-season.

So, thanks for asking, but no, I'd rather not get into that now.

Your restraint is admirable.

You sure that's how it's spelled? :D

http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/n/U/moran.jpg[/quote]

Nice that he also posted his name for everyone to see. Oh, wait that's IA. :D

So which two penalties are being administered in this case? :p

Well, in this particular instance, there's the penalty of shooting 2 FT's for the excess TO called, then there's the penalty of tossing you off this thread. :p

I used the term "penalties" in a general sense, rather than imply there was more than one penalty specific to this situation. I would think that is no different than reading about how "...applications will be accepted at the main office through Friday...", although personally I'm going to only submit one application.

(I sure hope mbyron backs me up on this one...)

And, of course: shut up. :D

If you did ask Chris Webber he may say he doesn't know, since those games never happened. :)

Moron vs Moran???
 

:rolleyes:Ouch!!:rolleyes: And, it's not even the annual off topic thread.

Peace, Love, & the Cardinals will end up in First place! (I hope.)