Pregame dunking - is it being well enforced?
 

I know it's illegal under NCAA and NFHS rules, and I have seen it called before. I noticed the case of St Mary's getting called for it last season against Gonzaga. Still - I've seen it go uncalled more often - and sometimes even when the officials are on the floor although the dunking typically isn't all that demonstrative. Some people are even posting video that they've taken of pregame dunks. I actually thought that maybe the rule on pregame dunks had changed, but I didn't see anything.

I remember once seeing a pregame ritual (right in front of the officials) before the CIF state championship in Sacramento where one team was alley-ooping it repeatedly and getting within inches of the rim by dropping it from just above the rim. A coach I know who saw it thought that it should have been called at least once for breaking the spirit of the rule.

I understand that there's not much that can be done if the players come out before the officials take to the floor and can witness the act.

We have strict enforcement of this rule in our local kids rec league, especially at the 3rd and 4th grade level.

Hey - they shoot at 9 foot hoops.

Depending on the act I might give a warning to one player once. sometimes you can get away with that.

Other than that to me its a pretty black and white case, very little grey area.

Players don't dunk pre-game around here, not after we take the court. Don't know about college (I didn't think it was a rule in college). I know sometimes players will come close, but I'm not calling it unless it's obvious.

Another coach that doesn't know the rules.....:rolleyes:

Dropping the ball in is NOT dunking as defined under both NCAA and NFHS rules. To be dunked by definition, the ball must be driven, forced or pushed through the basket. Simply dropping the ball down from above is legal and always has been legal. And that's also the spirit, or purpose and intent of the rule as written.

And no, it ain't offensive basket interference either for having a hand in contact with a ball in the cylinder. There's also a rules exception covering that action.

"Dropping" may not have been the best description. Some of the players were doing all the motions of a dunk and forcing the ball through. The one detail is that they were clearly avoiding hand contact with the rim during the motions.

Here's one (between the legs followed by a dunk), although it looks like it's well before the game has started and the refs are nowhere to be seen. It's not a huge dunk, but it's pretty clear it's being driven through the hoop and his hand contacts the rim.

YouTube - Syracuse Basketball Pre-Game 2010- SICK DUNK!!!

Here's a Michigan player putting on his own little pregame dunk exhibition and even pulling down the collapsible rim a few times:

YouTube - Brent Petway: Air Georgia

I'm just wondering if perhaps there really isn't a consequence to this as long as the officials haven't stepped onto the court. NCAA rules say that the officials' jurisdiction to call infractions starts 30 minutes before the start of the game.

I heard about some HS team that forfeited a playoff game because a player shattered a backboard while dunking during pregame warmups (I believe they weren't required to have a backup). I've also seen that the NCAA Tournament facilities manual requires at least one backup backboard, although there doesn't seem to be any such rule for regular NCAA play. If the kid in the 2nd clip somehow breaks a backboard even without the officials present, it seems a little strange if there aren't consequences for the action.

Any consequences would be strictly up to the league. If it doesn't happen during the officials' jurisdiction, then it's got absolutely nothing at all to do with us. It is neither our worry nor our concern.

First, I can guarantee that both those games at major D1 programs were more than 30 minutes before the game because of how empty the arenas were.

Second, as Snaqs said, if I'm not sure, then it's not a T. If they are avoiding hand contact, then it's not dunking and it's not being a T.

Where are you trying to go with this?

There was quite a display prior to the large school State Championship game here. (Yes, the officials were on the floor.) :eek:

Obviously ..
 

Not here:

http://thm-a01.yimg.com/nimage/2650322e50e1689a

And?

And what? I was merely delivering facts. Are you looking for what action was taken?

The answer is absolutely nothing.

Wasn't there some (hotly debated) thread a while back where the Texas guys come to the floor and blow their whistle?

And why not? Special rules in Nevada?

http://www.smileyvault.com/albums/fo...stirthepot.gif

Somebody's just waiting for the tournament crowd to show up. :)

Not really......

The rule has been in a long time. And in my experience it has and is being enforced fairly uniformly and universally. I am wondering if there was any reason why it would not be enforced at a state championship game.

What if the injured player's mom came out on the floor and dunked?

I may have gotten two threads confused. :confused:

Bunch of cowards in Nevada,that's why our buddy assumes the rest of us work with or are cowards also.

+1

Peace

Tipsy tipoff ???
 

Had the officials been drinking within twenty-four hours of the tipoff?

Good enough for me. The main reason of the rule is to protect the equipment. If they don't touch the rim, it's not a dunk. It's a nit I'm not picking. If it's borderline/questionable, I'll walk up to the player and tell him to not be stupid. They never misunderstand that.

My second year in Wisconsin, I had a coach who wanted me to call this cause a player would drop/lightly push it down (he was almost 7 feet tall and would still have six inches between his hand and the rim). After a couple times of him whining, I told him "that's not a dunk, drop it". When I went to the table, he came over with a rulebook and dropped it on the book I was signing.

That was the one technical foul in my career I didn't call that I still regret to this day. Didn't matter, I ended up calling one during the game (and almost a second one, too). Thankfully, he retired soon thereafter and his replacement is one of the nicest guys you'd ever meet.

I'm not sure about the thread, but I can say that most in my chapter do indeed blow their whistle before entering the court.

Rid'em Cowboy ...
 

It was taught to us as a suggested mechanic.

Isn't The Hat Supposed To Be All Black ???
 

I'm not even going to look at the other video. Look at how many people at in the stands...then look at the clock...Note that the officials are not on the floor 25+ minutes before tipoff.

-Josh

I always find it amusing how we nitpick how the guys who are where most of us want to be are about how they do or dont do things yet how many of us ask the question "Is that MAYBE why they are there and some of you are not?"

Uhm....OK? :confused:

:confused:

I can't say, JR. I was not one of the three officials for that contest.

If you really desire an answer to your question and are not just trying to ruffles feathers, then I suggest that you contact the Section 7 representative on the NFHS rules committee as he was sitting courtside.

That statement is 100% wrong. JR will be along shortly to tell you the same.

Where in 4-16 does it mention anything about the ring?

Sorry, Rich, but you got what you deserved. The coach had every right to be upset that you were using your own personal standard instead of the NFHS rules book definition. The coach may have been a jerk, but he was also correct about the rule.

Predictable. Out of touch with reality, but predictable.

A typical response from someone who is unwilling to admit that he doesn't know the rule. Obviously, it is hard to accept after so many years of thinking a certain way that one's belief is false. Some people just aren't able to deal with it.

The bottom line is that touching the ring has absolutely nothing to do with the NFHS definition of dunking. The sooner that you come to grips with that the better.

Predictable. Funny....and predictable.

Do the concept of "spirit and intent" even exist in your world?

Gotta back Nevada on this one. Touching the rim has no part in the definition.
On the other hand, the limiting factor is physics. It is pretty near impossible to perform a dunk without touching the rim. If this guy was in fact dunking without touching the rim, (driving, forcing, pushing or attempting to force a ball through the basket with the hands) he is either an extremely gifted athlete, or the dunks weren't much, as dunks go.

By Rich's own description, dropping, lightly pushing down, I might very well agree that they weren't dunks, but the lack of touching the rim alone is not what makes that true.

The key, as I read the definition, is pushing through the basket, which means pushing down. Saw a highlight recently where a player, I think it was Tyrus Thomas, threw it down through the basket even though he released the ball several feet in front of the rim. Was this a dunk? I think so.

No, I was honestly wondering whattheheck happened. Not to the point of doing that much digging though.

Was there an old thread on this that I missed or forgot about?

1) Nevada is technically correct. The ring doesn't enter into the determination of whether the ball was dunked or not.

2) That I disagree with. Lightly pushing the ball down doesn't equate to driving and/or forcing the ball through the basket imo. It's about the same as following through with your hands on a lay-up. From Rich's description, I'd never call sumthin' like that either.

Fwiw the only part of Rich's original post that I disagree with is that small bit about the rim. Everything else is spot-on imo.

Texas, Get It ???
 

Is Texas the only state where the pregame whistle is sounded?

For what it's worth, I'm too smart to mention the rim to the coach, as I do know the rule. I simply said, "that's not a dunk." At one point, I finally said, "that's not a dunk, turn the page." Then, after the captains meeting (which we do at 12 minutes at Wisconsin), I went to the table and checked/signed the book, which is when he came over and dropped the rule book on top of the book.

How could anyone with a straight face consider it a dunk when the player's hand never came closer than six inches from the basket and he essentially lightly threw it through? If he's controlled enough not to bring his hand down, is he really forcing it through?

I call about 10 games a season where a handful of players on each team is capable of bringing the board down. If one of them clearly dunks, I would call a technical foul without hesitation. But in a situation where it would be up to interpretation of what is and what isn't a dunk (even by the 3 officials on the game)? No freaking way. There is something to be said for being smarter than that.

Look At Me, I'm Sandra Dee ...
 

Most players in my little corner of the Constitution State know enough to just "drop" (just release, not push downward) the ball into the basket while having one, or both, hands directly above the center of the rim. It sends a message to the other team that, "Hey. Look at me. I can dunk if I wanted to but I don't want to start the game with a technical foul". Occasionally a player will put a little finger pressure downward on the "drop" which will get him, or her (just kidding), one, and only one warning, "Hey. Be careful. No dunking", as they pass by us in the layup line. Twenty-nine years. No pregame dunking T's in a high school game. Many in AAU, recreation, travel, and men's league games, but high school players, and coaches, around these parts understand the rule and abide by it.

I tell players to stay from up there when they are getting close. So I do not have to even have that type of conversation with the coach that thinks they know the rule or what I should or should not rule. They would have to really make an effort for me to call a dunk in the pregame if the rim was not touched.

Peace