Pregame scouting/team tendencies

[CoachFred]

Originally Posted by Smitty

Perhaps if you spent more time working on correcting the tendencies that equate to violations/fouls instead of worrying about if the officials are talking about those tendencies, things would work themselves out naturally. In other words, fix the player's tendency to do illegal things. Problem will solve itself...

You are correct about that. Yes, sometimes we set moving screens and get called for them...part of the game IMO.

But, I feel that since we already have a reputation for setting illegal screens specifically, we are watched closer and get away with less than other teams that we go against. My problem is we are being more closely scrutinized for these things.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by CoachFred

You are correct about that. Yes, sometimes we set moving screens and get called for them...part of the game IMO.

But, I feel that since we already have a reputation for setting illegal screens specifically, we are watched closer and get away with less than other teams that we go against. My problem is we are being more closely scrutinized for these things.

Well, that extra scrutiny will end when your players stop setting illegal screens.

The fact (assuming) that you get called for more illegal screens may also be the by-product of your team setting more screens than other teams, thus creating more opportunties for the foul to be called.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by CoachFred

You are correct about that. Yes, sometimes we set moving screens and get called for them...part of the game IMO.

But, I feel that since we already have a reputation for setting illegal screens specifically, we are watched closer and get away with less than other teams that we go against. My problem is we are being more closely scrutinized for these things.

Are the calls correct? When you do get called for an illegal screen, is it an illegal screen? If so, what are you really complaining about? You use the phrase "get away with less" as if you are thinking you should be able to "get way" with more illegal activity. That's just an odd argument, in my opinion.

Stop your kids from setting illegal screens - teach them the proper way to set a screen - and I guarantee that you will be called for less of them.

[CoachFred]

Originally Posted by Smitty

Are the calls correct? When you do get called for an illegal screen, is it an illegal screen? If so, what are you really complaining about? You use the phrase "get away with less" as if you are thinking you should be able to "get way" with more illegal activity. That's just an odd argument, in my opinion.

Stop your kids from setting illegal screens - teach them the proper way to set a screen - and I guarantee that you will be called for less of them.

To the letter of the rule...yes probably correct.....but the same is not called on other teams that I scout or coach against. So yes, we get away with less "illegal activity" than other teams which creates an advantage for them.

Didn't want to turn this thread into a post about my team setting illegal screens, just wanted everyones opinion on pre-game tendencies.

I know my opinion of them, but everyone has made some valid points as well. Thanks for the comments....don't agree on the pre-game scouting as far as team and player tendencies (not including dirty players), but nonetheless, I think everyone has raised some good points.

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by CoachFred

You are correct about that. Yes, sometimes we set moving screens and get called for them...part of the game IMO.

But, I feel that since we already have a reputation for setting illegal screens specifically, we are watched closer and get away with less than other teams that we go against. My problem is we are being more closely scrutinized for these things.

Coach,
First of all, welcome to the Board. Secondly, I have several thoughts on your views. As a coach with a career that spans back to the 1970s, I spend many, many hours scouting opponents. Not only do I document a team's patterns, sets, defenses, press breaks, etc., but I also document which players were likely to jump to block shots (head and ball fakes required when near these players), likely to crash through on offensive rebounds (extra aggressive box outs necessary, here), likely to attempt to steal the ball from the dribbler (some 1-on-1 clear outs are in order), etc.

Further, if I know the officials doing my game, I absolutely modify the way my team plays. Some officials call a very close game. In those cases, it was very important to remind the players to stay vertical, not take chances on the offensive end on rebounds, etc. Other officials call a looser game. In those cases, we could trap more aggressively, take chances on rebounds, etc. Do these changes represent MAJOR changes to the way my teams play? Absolutely not! We never try to steal the ball from the dribbler, rarely jump to block shots (instead focusing on a solid box out), rarely attempt to get an offensive rebound unless we have good rebounding position, etc.

With all that said, how do I feel about the pre-game discussions? I am fine with these discussions. As has been pointed out in this thread, any opportunity that we get to gain knowledge about a team or individual players is a good thing. We do watch in pre-game for player tendencies. Some of these tendencies are violations -- travels, illegal dribbles, etc. Other tendencies look strange, but after seeing them several times in pre-game, we may notice that they are actually legal. I see nothing wrong with this.

Major League Soccer referees will actually look at tape of previous games involving teams that they are about to referee. They look for tendencies, they look for "divers", they look to see if there are any match-ups that have caused problems in earlier games, etc. The MLS has determined that such referee meetings improve the quality of games.

Is it possible that team tendencies lead to more fouls or violations being called during a game? Yep, sure is. As JR points out, it is NOT something conscious, but is it possible that there is some subconscious activity going on, here? Yep, sure is.

The real question is how can your team shake the label of being a team of "illegal screeners?" The answer is actually fairly simple. Your team has to set "statue" screens for at least a season. You can't allow your players to stick out a knee, a shoulder, an elbow, etc. You can't allow your players to "reposition" just as the defender is about to make contact.

You must do this while some of your opponents may be able to get away with a slight reposition, etc. Is this fair? Well, maybe not. BUT, typically, teams such as yours get a reputation for a valid reason -- they set illegal screens on a regular basis and gain a significant advantage doing so.

This is no different than the driver who has received THREE speeding tickets in the past year. If that person gets pulled over for speeding, the likelihood of getting a ticket for speeding is VERY HIGH. If a different person who has received NO speeding tickets is also pulled over, the likelihood of that person getting a ticket is lower as they have not had a tendency or history of speeding. Is this fair? Possibly not. But, it is the way things work.

[Juulie Downs]

Coach, you do realize, don't you, that the refs are also discussing your opponents in the pre-game? Wouldn't you rather have them watching both teams knowledgably, calling early what needs to be called, so everyone has a chance to clean it up and get down to business? If your opponent's #35 has a tendency to illegally jump stop before shooting, wouldn't you want the refs to be seeing and calling that right away?

I can't see that this is to your disadvantage. As others have pointed out, you are at the advantage in knowing what refs see in your team. Now you can address those specific issues and get your team working toward a higher level of play.

[doubleringer]

Absolutely we talk about what a team generally does defensively and offensively. I've also had assignors call before the game to give us a head's up if there were more serious issues from a previous game.

My last high school game was in the far southern part of the state. 2 teams I had never seen before. I actually contacted a head coach down in that area (not involved in the game) and asked about both teams' style of play. He also indicated that when the teams last met, there was ugliness that went on during the post-game handshake. He didn't know specifics, but I was very glad to know there was some bad blood, so to speak, between the teams going in. Our game went on without anything major, but we were also had a, to use a women's college term, hightened awareness of any non-basketball plays.