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New one for me...
BJV last night. Start of the 2Q, I'm lead. Both huddles are slow coming out on the second horn. Trail administers throwin to V, and we go. About 10 seconds in C, tableside, blows the whistle. He waves me over, and says a player got up from the bench and ran onto the floor, passing him as he ran in. T says he counted 5 before handing the ball for the throw in, and C and myself both said we also counted 5. We assess the technical and I go to the V bench to explain. I tell him that we had V11 entering, during play and without being beckoned. He tells me that 11 had been on the floor when the ball was inbounded, got counfused about if he was supposed to be in the game, and sat down. According to the coach, since he had been on the floor legally at the throw in, that gave him the right to come back in as he did. I told him that in that case, his player had left the floor iliegally and the technical was still correct. His response? "Well, it worked last Tuesday."
It was an interesting situation for us, and the coach's response was very interesting... |
Leaving the floor for an authorized reason is a violation, not a technical.
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How would you,oh wise ones, haave handled the situation? |
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No one saw player leave floor for unauthorized reason --can't call violation; I would go with team tech for not returning at approximately same time following intermission.
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This T should be ignored if there's no advantage gained by the player coming onto the court. IOW, if it's not deceitful or advantageous, ignore it.
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I agree it should be ignored if not deceitful; once whistle is blown, though, can you just 'wave it off' or does it now need to be addressed?
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SITUATION 12: Following a (a) charged time-out; or (b) a lengthy substitution process involving multiple substitutions for both teams, A5 goes to the bench and remains there mistakenly believing he/she has been replaced by a substitute. The ball is put in play even though Team A has only four players on the court. Team A is bringing the ball into A's frontcourt when the coach of Team A realizes they have only four players. The coach yells for A5 to return, and he/she sprints onto the court and catches up with play. RULING: In (a), the officials shall stop play and assess a team technical foul for not having all players return to the court at approximately the same time after a time-out. The technical foul counts toward the team-foul count. In (b), the officials may permit play to continue without penalty. A5's return to the court was not deceitful, nor did it provide A5 an unfair positioning advantage on the court. COMMENT: Even though neither situation provided A5 or Team A with an advantage, teams are expected to return to the court at approximately the same time following a time-out. The officials should have also followed the prescribed mechanics and counted the number of players on the court, ensuring each team has the legal number of players. (10-1-9; 10-3-3) |
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According to the OP, the player did return to the court for the start of the 2nd qtr;
1. Team V had five players to start qtr. Therefore Sit 12 A does not apply. 2. V11 leaves court - violation? (not called) 3. V11 then comes back on to the court; is this a T for not being beckoned? I think Sit 12 B applies - A5 is supposed to be on the court, and A5's return is not deceitful - therefore play on or IW. |
Answer A Question With A Question ???
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A substitute shall not enter the court without reporting to the scorer; and without being beckoned by an official, except between periods. |
BillyMac
I agree - Sub or player? Sit 12 B - seems to indicate the 5th is a player and therefore can come onto the court. |
Thanks for the replies.
And sorry to offend, deecee. I didn't intend to convey a "retarded *** attitude." I read the board often and respect the views of the experienced officials who post. Therefore, I asked how they might have handled the situation. |
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Where is this written? |
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You all count 5 before hand. No one sees V11 leave the floor, but C sees him run past him. Did C even see him on the bench? V11 isn't a sub, so you can't charge him with a T for coming in unbeckoned. The most you can do here is charge V with a violation and give A the ball at V's bench. I'm not even sure you can do that, though, since no one saw him leave the court. For all you know, he tripped over his shoe laces and landed on the bench. If, for some reason, you charged the T for failing to have all players come on at the same time after a TO, it's a team T; no player and no coach. |
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Why are you apologizing to Deecee...he should be apologizing to you!!:(
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I agree, I was out of line I just read your statement as overly sarcastic after a response was given.
My bad I need to get back on my prescribed dose of meds and not overdoing it :o |
Timeout, My Hand Fell Asleep ...
Saturday. Boys varsity. My partner is preparing to administer a throwin when the table sounds the horn for substitutes. I'm right near the table, in front of the Team A bench. I hold up my hand to prevent my partner from handing the ball to the player for the throwin and I beckon the substitutes. Several substitutes enter the game, and several come out. My hand is still up as I do a quick count. Good thing because I count six Team A players on the court, so I keep my hand up. I wait several seconds for the extra player to leave the court, but the players don't seem to know who should come out. My hand is still up. The Team A coach is right behind me, so I tell him, "Can't play with six". He looks around trying to decide who should come out. My hand is still up. Now the Team B coach figures out that there are six opponents on the court, and yells to me, "Isn't that technical foul?". I respond, "Only if my partner hands the throwin player the ball". My hand is still up. Finally, the Team A coach yanks one of his players, my hand comes down, finally, my partner administers the throwin, and we play ball.
What is the difference between preventative officiating and coaching? How long should I, or could I, have waited? |
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Situation is from the 07-08 interps. This interpretation, in my opinion, is consistent with the wording of the rule, even though I don't care much for the rule. In the current case play 10.1.9, the team does gain an apparent advantage, but this condition is not specified anywhere else. What, specifically, does your book say about this? And why is there yet another NFHS rules publication in the first place? |
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Wait until you're convinced that he's defying you. |
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10.3.3 sit B After a lengthy substitution process involving multiple substitutions for both teams, A5 goes to the bench and remains there believing he/she has been replaced. The ball is put in play even though team A has only four players on the court. Team A is bringing the ball into A's front court when the coach of team A realizes they only have four players. the coach yells for A5 to return and he/she sprints directly onto the court and catches up whith the play. Ruling. No technical foul is charged to A5. A5's return to the court was not deceitful, nor did it provide A5 an unfair positioning advantage on the court.
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That's a slightly different sitch. If this happens following a timeout, call the T. :)
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10.1.9 Sit After time-out if A5 stays on the bench; then comes onto the court during action - T
10.3.2 Sit B - After subs - A5 thinks they were replaced goes to the bench and then comes onto the court during action - No T. |
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You mean 10.3.2, right? |
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Is this the book for the current year? |
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