High 5 T?

[just another ref]

Tonight I went to watch a BV district tiebreaker game. Big rivalry, pretty close most of the way, but the home team got ahead double digits mid 4th quarter and was about to put it away. H1 had a breakaway. V1 came flying in behind with a wild block attempt. His arm hooked H1's arm around the elbow. The contact was not that severe, but H1 was airborne and vulnerable and went hard to the floor. I've seen worse, but I thought this passed the test. My wife looked at me with raised eyebrows. I nodded and made the X. About this time V1 and V2 were exchanging a big time high 5 in celebration of the play. I spoke up that I would T him up for that as well.

Like a lot of other calls, this was easy from the bleachers. I considered it a form of taunting. Anybody else seen/made this call?

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Tonight I went to watch a BV district tiebreaker game. Big rivalry, pretty close most of the way, but the home team got ahead double digits mid 4th quarter and was about to put it away. H1 had a breakaway. V1 came flying in behind with a wild block attempt. His arm hooked H1's arm around the elbow. The contact was not that severe, but H1 was airborne and vulnerable and went hard to the floor. I've seen worse, but I thought this passed the test. My wife looked at me with raised eyebrows. I nodded and made the X. About this time V1 and V2 were exchanging a big time high 5 in celebration of the play. I spoke up that I would T him up for that as well.

Like a lot of other calls, this was easy from the bleachers. I considered it a form of taunting. Anybody else seen/made this call?

As I read it, though not the best person to answer, I see it as how you said it should of been called.

Although shouldn't of V1 been DQ'd for the unsportsmanlike conduct for the hooking of the elbow & the celebratory high 5 afterwards?

[drshawnpet]

Sounds like an intentional foul, due to the excessive nature/taking the vulnerable airborne shooter to the floor; however I would probably have passed on the tech, unless there was gesturing toward fallen player. Game is essentially over, and you can talk to the kid during free throws. Throwing gasoline on fire can make for a long last several minutes... also, don't remember high-fiving ever referenced in rules book as "taunting"... what do you tell HC if he tells you they were celebrating the effort? Seems like one would be reaching/inserting oneself when one could pass on it without harm.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by drshawnpet

... what do you tell HC if he tells you they were celebrating the effort?

I literally would tell him

[Camron Rust]

So, we have a defender attempting to block the shot and the only contact, as I read it is on the arm (shooting arm I presume) at the elbow. Sounds like the defender was attempting to play the ball and it really doesn't seem that excessive. You even said the contact wasn't severe, just the result. Not sure that meets the definition of intentional. I don't see anything more than a basic personal foul.

Now the high 5. Were they celebrating the defensive effort (perhaps he really hustle just to get to the spot to have a chance at making a play) or the fact that the player went down hard? If the former, I don't see this as a T. Congratulating your teammate for a hustle play is not taunting...unless it is done in the face of the opponent and that doesn't seem to be the case.

[JRutledge]

The contact does not sound like an intentional foul based on your own description, but I was not there so that is very hard to tell.

A T for a high five? That sounds much more dubious. If anything I would have needed much more than just a high five. Maybe something the players said or some comment to the player that was fouled? But a high five T is not very solid if you ask me. I would need more than just that action alone.

Peace

[Jurassic Referee]

It's a straight judgment call as to whether the foul on the shooter was intentional in nature, as is whether the high-five after is "taunting" also.

And from the description I wouldn't second-guess anyone who went either way on both calls. It's all in the eye of the beholder.....and the beholder is the calling official.

How's that for wishy-washy?

[biggravy]

Best part:

Originally Posted by just another ref

My wife looked at me with raised eyebrows. I nodded and made the X. About this time V1 and V2 were exchanging a big time high 5 in celebration of the play. I spoke up that I would T him up for that as well.

Like a lot of other calls, this was easy from the bleachers. I considered it a form of taunting. Anybody else seen/made this call?

Did you're wife give you the okay to go ahead and T him up?

[drshawnpet]

I am all for giving kids the benefit of the doubt on good hard fouls when playing the ball, but if the shooter is airborne and vulnerable and taken to the floor from behind, I think you can calm things down by going with the IF; we all know it doesn't take a lot of contact to take a kid out when vulnerable.
As previously stated, hard to say without seeing the play, but I'm not afraid to go with it; usually you will eliminate any 'retaliation' hard foul by the offended team later on if you go with IF.

[just another ref]

After further review, I am uncertain. My gut reaction at the time was that I would have made both calls, but I didn't have a whistle at the time. I do think that this is the type of play that the written account does not do it justice. V coach also disapproved the action. He removed V1 from the game.