Long reach, duh! - sitch

[mick]

I'm Lead tableside (then new Trail) Two whistle.
From the end line I see:

B1 bringing the ball to division line. (Trail is following opposite); A1 steals the ball right in front of Coach B. (Could be some contact.)
A1 dribbles right and gets a slight forearm from B1 as she beats B1 (still in front of Coach B). (Could be enough contact. Where's my Center?)
A1 continues down the right and loses ball out-of-bounds off B2. A ball. (Now, I am in front of Coach B)

Coach B: "Did you see that contact?!!!"
"Your girl! I saw your player use a forearm."
Coach B: "No before that?!!!"
"That's not my call from the end line."

I shoulda/coulda said ...what?

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by mick
I'm Lead tableside (then new Trail) Two whistle.
From the end line I see:

B1 bringing the ball to division line. (Trail is following opposite); A1 steals the ball right in front of Coach B. (Could be some contact.)
A1 dribbles right and gets a slight forearm from B1 as she beats B1 (still in front of Coach B). (Could be enough contact. Where's my Center?)
A1 continues down the right and loses ball out-of-bounds off B2. A ball. (Now, I am in front of Coach B)

Coach B: "Did you see that contact?!!!"
"Your girl! I saw your player use a forearm."
Coach B: "No before that?!!!"
"That's not my call from the end line."

I shoulda/coulda said ...what?

Coach B: "Did you see that contact?!!!"
"Your girl! I saw your player use a forearm."
Coach B: "No before that?!!!"
"Nope, I saw nuthin' before that."

[eroe39]

"Coach, I didn't have a great look at it from where I was and my partner was right on the play and I trust them." Never say "That's not my call." That makes it seem like you believe the call was wrong but it was not yours to make. Even if you believe the call/no call was horrible you have to avoid that line.

[A Dutch Ref]

That makes sense

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by mick
Coach B: "Did you see that contact?!!!"


I shoulda/coulda said ...what?

"No I didn't,coach".

Anything else puts you in a "no win" situation.This way there isn't too much further that he can discuss with you now,and you don't really want to discuss this particular play at this particular time with him anyway.Hopefully,he'll just vent for a coupla seconds and move on.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by eroe39
"Coach, I didn't have a great look at it from where I was and my partner was right on the play and I trust them."

Perfect.

Never say "That's not my call."

There's a great story from an NBA ref. I think it was Bevetta, but I'm not sure. When this ref was just coming into the league, he had a similar exchange and told the coach, "Coach, that's not my call." The coach replied, "Then whose is it? The popcorn guy's?!?!"

Chuck

[stripes]

Originally posted by mick
I'm Lead tableside (then new Trail) Two whistle.
From the end line I see:

B1 bringing the ball to division line. (Trail is following opposite); A1 steals the ball right in front of Coach B. (Could be some contact.)
A1 dribbles right and gets a slight forearm from B1 as she beats B1 (still in front of Coach B). (Could be enough contact. Where's my Center?)
A1 continues down the right and loses ball out-of-bounds off B2. A ball. (Now, I am in front of Coach B)

Coach B: "Did you see that contact?!!!"
"Your girl! I saw your player use a forearm."
Coach B: "No before that?!!!"
"That's not my call from the end line."

I shoulda/coulda said ...what?

Is this play even remotely close to your area? I'll tell you where C was, with 4 eyes on 2 players, he was covering your @$$es.

If you are watching your area, the exchange with the coach becomes much easier..."I was watching other players."

Eli is right--never utter the word's, "its not my call", unless you want the coach all over you for the rest of your career.

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by stripes

Is this play even remotely close to your area? I'll tell you where C was, with 4 eyes on 2 players, he was covering your @$$es.

It's pretty easy, at most times, to pick up on action out of your area. Often, your line of sight, which is focused on your primary, will allow some visibility of the rest of the court. And it should. Even when the ball is not in your primary, you should know where it is and what is coming your way.

If you are watching your area, the exchange with the coach becomes much easier..."I was watching other players."

Eli is right--never utter the word's, "its not my call", unless you want the coach all over you for the rest of your career.

I certainly agree. I don't lie to them. If I saw it, I tell them and often add, "Yes, I saw it but didn't have a great view. My partner was right there and would have seen it clearly. I trust them." A recent response to this was "Thanks, at least I got an honest answer" implying they really don't like it when the refs cover it up or play dumb.

Now back to mick's original case. It didn't sound like the trail was really that close to the play. Plus, it's on mick's line, he has to cover that line.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by stripes

Is this play even remotely close to your area? I'll tell you where C was, with 4 eyes on 2 players, he was covering your @$$es.

If you are watching your area, the exchange with the coach becomes much easier..."I was watching other players."

Not that Mick needs me to defend him but if you reread his
post you'll see he was calling a 2 man game, so there was
no C. In this sitch - a quick ball reversal -it's not
uncommon to have 4 eyes on the ball, especially in 2 man.
As L Mick did have sideline responsibility. But I'll have
to ask Mick if there was pressure on B1 bringing the ball
into her front court why were you standing down by the
endline? (Some might ask in a more colorful manner, right Chuck? )

Eli is right--never utter the word's, "its not my call", unless you want the coach all over you for the rest of your career.

Agree. I have basically 2 responses for this sort of thing:

"Didn't see it."
"From what I saw he got it right."

The one I use depends on the situation & how I feel like answering.

[stripes]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dan_ref

Not that Mick needs me to defend him but if you reread his
post you'll see he was calling a 2 man game, so there was
no C. In this sitch - a quick ball reversal -it's not
uncommon to have 4 eyes on the ball, especially in 2 man.
As L Mick did have sideline responsibility. But I'll have
to ask Mick if there was pressure on B1 bringing the ball
into her front court why were you standing down by the
endline? (Some might ask in a more colorful manner, right Chuck? )

I missed the part about the two man game in my haste. My apologies Mick. Please disregard my comments.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Dan_ref
I'll have to ask Mick if there was pressure on B1 bringing the ball into her front court why were you standing down by the endline? (Some might ask in a more colorful manner, right Chuck? )

Lemme ask you this: What the f*** are you doin' down on the f***ing endline without even lookin' at your f***ing partner 94 f***ing feet away?!?! That's dumb!! God, it's hot out here; and my f***ing back is f***ing killin' me.

I seem to remember something like that from camp. . .

chuck

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

Lemme ask you this: What the f*** are you doin' down on the f***ing endline without even lookin' at your f***ing partner 94 f***ing feet away?!?! That's dumb!! God, it's hot out here; and my f***ing back is f***ing killin' me.

I seem to remember something like that from camp. . .

chuck

I have no idea what you're talking about...anyway, hear any good jokes lately?

[mick]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

Lemme ask you this: What the f*** are you doin' down on the f***ing endline without even lookin' at your f***ing partner 94 f***ing feet away?!?! chuck

Fellas,
I was okay down there, off the endline and parallel with the ball.
I was taking care of eight other players (or maybe all 10) and glanced up court to see wazzup.
The pressure started when B1 crossed the division line.
I had a straight-line look when A1 attacked the ball, but my partner had (should have had) the angle, or not.
By the time A1 got pushed by B1, I had a decent angle, but passed because A1 just kept rollin' dribblin'.
mick

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by mick
Fellas,
I was okay down there, off the endline and parallel with the ball

I did not intend to impugn your positioning, mick. I was just offering my recollections of some "instruction" that Dan and I received at camp. Personally, I don't see a whole lot of difference between standing 94 feet from your partner and standing 79 feet from your partner.

Chuck

[mick]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

I did not intend to impugn your positioning, mick. I was just offering my recollections of some "instruction" that Dan and I received at camp. Personally, I don't see a whole lot of difference between standing 94 feet from your partner and standing 79 feet from your partner.

Chuck

Chuck,
I heard ya.
I grabbed one break-away shooting foul call from about 75', but I knew my partner was straight-lined.
On this sitch, my partner passed or missed and I wasn't goin' there.

The fact is that my comment was less than perfect, and I knew it while it was coming out of my mouth. That's why I shared it.
All you guys give/gave great advice, but this sitch hadn't been brought up (again) before I hit the floor this year. Had it been mentioned/re-mentioned, I would have been re-armed and not made that exact comment.
I am guilty of a "Duh!"
But, I am blaming all of you for not reminding me before I got on the floor.
So there!!!

mick

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Use preparation, not Preparation-H, for a mouthwash.