During pre-game warm-ups A1 goes up for a dunk, changes his mind, loses his balance and grasp the ring to prevent injury-What (if any) is the call ??

If that is what you saw, then don't go lookin' for something else.

If I saw this then lots of other people saw it too.
The game's gonna start with 2 free throws.

If there was no grasp or attempt to dunk, I have a player grabbing the ring to prevent injury and would not assess any penalty.

Hmmm, so what was he doing up there before he grabbed the
rim? Seems to me the simplest explanation is he was
attempting a dunk.

Here's a hypothetical. Team A comes out for warmups and A1, A2, and A3 each dunk. That's three indirect T's on the head coach. So after reporting the T's to the table, you turn to A's bench and inform the man you know to be the head coach. Thinking quickly, he replies that HE is not the head coach for this game; but that the guy you know to be the assistant coach is actually the head coach. What do you do?

I toss the guy who I know to be the head coach and tell the 3 kids who dunked to enjoy their last game on the team.

Chuck

The original sitch said that he was gonna dunk,but then changed his mind.Therefore,in the referee's opinion,there was no attempt to dunk.The referee was also of the opinion that the player grasped the ring to avoid injury.Therefore,t'aint a T under the exception to R10.3.5
The whole play hinges on the individual official's judgement of the circumstances.

Gee,I don't know,Chuck.I might let the little booger get away it,unload the assistant,seat-belt the guy who is the usual head coach,and put in a very comprehensive game report after-letting the league take care of it.To do it any other way is too close to mind-reading.
Btw,why would you get so ticked off at the 3 players who dunked?All you can do is charge each one of them with a T.Am I missing something here?

Sure, but what I'm saying is that I won't give him the benefit of the doubt. If we decide to let the kid go we just might end up T'ing the opposing coach, IMO. Imagine this conversation:

Coach: "Hey, that player dunked during the pregame. How come he ain't getting a T??"

Ref: "Yeah, he started to dunk but he changed his mind."

Coach: "HE WHAT???!!!"...

...nothing good's gonna come out of this. Bottom line to me - if he got up there the player was attempting a dunk.

Ah, Chuck's just P'ed off because the Sox did well against the Yanks this weekend but it didn't mean squat. :D

Dan,I'd probably read the play the same way you did.However,APHP asked what the call would be if you read the play the same way he did i.e.NO attempt to dunk and then grab the ring to avoid injury.Under the rules,that isn't a T.If you read the play differently,then you are certainly justified in calling a T.'Tis a judgement call by the official is all I was trying to get at.

I understand and I agree with what you're saying under the rules. But to repeat, I would never interpret this sitch this way.

Ah, Chuck's just P'ed off because the Sox did well against the Yanks this weekend but it didn't mean squat. :D
[/B][/QUOTE]I take it you weren't able to convert him to the True Faith while you were at camp with him?
Lemme see--stake,firewood,matches!Yup,we can keep trying!:D

I take it you weren't able to convert him to the True Faith while you were at camp with him?
Lemme see--stake,firewood,matches!Yup,we can keep trying!:D [/B][/QUOTE]

I tried, I tried, but he runs too d@mn fast!! :D

Dan,what would you do in the head coach and 3T sitch?That is a good question.I can certainly see why Chuck could get ticked off so badly.You pretty well KNOW you are being conned.

If you know who the head coach is, why would you let him stay? In my HS games, I know who the head coaches are, simply b/c I see them 2 or 3 times a season, many of them come down for a beer on Friday nights. I know who they are. So if this happened in one of my games (at the HS level, anyway), the head coach is leaving the bench. If I knowingly allowed the head coach to stay, I think I'd catch a lot of trouble for that. Just my opinion.

Quote:

Btw,why would you get so ticked off at the 3 players who dunked?All you can do is charge each one of them with a T.Am I missing something here?

I'm not ticked, JR; but the coach sure is. My guess is that come practice on Monday afternoon, Coach is gonna clean house. Hence, I have a strong suspicion that this will be their last game with the team. (BTW, I was just kidding about actually saying that to them. I might ask them what was going on, but I wouldn't ever tell them that they were "done".)

BTW again, this actually happened about 5 seasons ago in an Indiana HS game. First 3 kids in the lay-up line dunked, coach was ejected. Apparently, the kids felt that the coach had been abusive in practices that week and had decided to get him tossed.

Chuck

[Edited by ChuckElias on Sep 3rd, 2002 at 12:46 PM]

The only thing I'm p'ed about is that Pedro's hip will keep him from kicking Roger's fat butt tomorrow night. Don't get quite so cocky yet. The Sox have a much easier schedule than the Yanks, Angels, or M's for the rest of the season.

Chuck

..., but looking the wrong way. ;)

If you know who the head coach is, why would you let him stay? In my HS games, I know who the head coaches are, simply b/c I see them 2 or 3 times a season, many of them come down for a beer on Friday nights. I know who they are. So if this happened in one of my games (at the HS level, anyway), the head coach is leaving the bench. If I knowingly allowed the head coach to stay, I think I'd catch a lot of trouble for that. Just my opinion.[/B][/QUOTE]Chuck,I'm in the same boat that you are.I assign games for our association,so I know who the head coach of every team certainly is.The problem for the official at the game is that he can't be 100% sure if the goober is lying to him or not.I've had coaches that would do this type of thing,if they were smart enough to think of it.I just think that it might be better to put your suspicions in a game report,and hopefully the conference,league,AD etc.will take care of the problem.I would think that if the league has it's head screwed on right,there would be more repercussions to a coach trying to pull something like this than a simple ejection for too many players dunking in the warm-up.JMO.
Btw,we have a rule that officials cannot drink with coaches after a game.This got put in about 30 years ago when one of our guys slugged a coach who was giving him a hard time.Bad scene all the way around.

It is a good question, so good I was trying to ignore it...

I had something like this happen to me this summer at an
AAU tourney. Guy I knew to be the assistant starts off in
the first minute loudly complaining about stupid stuff. I
T him, tell the table it's 1 + indirect on the head coach.
Head coach gets up, says I'm not the HC, I'm the assistant.
Great, all I know is I have 1 hr and 10 minutes to get the
next game started, including 5 minutes for me to have a
break. So I tell them both the next T on the bench is
flagrant, you guys decide. But that was AAU where you
gotta carry a big stick. In a "real" game I'm not sure
how I would handle it, while I'm tempted by Chuck's
"who-you-foolin'" response I suspect I would do it your
way. I think I would also tell them both I know what just
happened and he had better be on his best behavior.

LOL!

East W L PCT GB
NY Yankees 84 52 .618 ---
Boston 77 58 .570 6 1/2

If NY goes .500 for the rest of the year Boston needs to
win 20 out of their remaining 27 just to tie. I suppose
the Sox have a chance of catching the Angels or the M's for
the wild card, but being a Yankees fan I don't concern
myself with the (ahem) *wildcard* races. :eek:

Sounds good to me.
In a "real" game,you're naturally gonna know who the actual head coach is when you do your pre-game introduction thingy.The only way that there is ever any doubt is the sitch we were talking about-where you get a T before you definitely find out who the head coach is.Then,you maybe can give them the benefit of the doubt in that case,while seat-belting both of them and putting them on a real short leash.That also pretty well covers your own butt,if anyone wants to question your judgement after the fact.
The good thing is that most coaches would never dream of pulling any crap like this.

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. After thinking some
more it might be smart to not announce the T's until you
know who the HC is.

Ref: "Good evening coach. You'll be the head coach tonight?
Coach: "Yes that's right."
Ref: "I got some bad news for you coach..."

I coach girls. If my first three dunk, they don't need my help out there! :)