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-   -   Three point shot from knees (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/57216-three-point-shot-knees.html)

grunewar Fri Feb 19, 2010 11:28am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 663071)
I didn't look at the video, I'm talking in general. Any attempt to improve thier position/stance from the floor is getting up (perhaps just partially).

The only thing a player on the floor is permitted to do is sit up if and only if they are on their back. Any other movement is traveling.

Unless of course......you......

Adam Fri Feb 19, 2010 11:36am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 663071)
I didn't look at the video, I'm talking in general. Any attempt to improve thier position/stance from the floor is getting up (perhaps just partially).

The only thing a player on the floor is permitted to do is sit up if and only if they are on their back. Any other movement is traveling.

The rule doesn't say they can't "improve their position." It says they can't get up or attempt to get up. It says they can't roll over. I don't see how your position is supported by rule, Camron. Now I've got to go to my car to get the book.

Camron Rust Fri Feb 19, 2010 11:49am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 663075)
The rule doesn't say they can't "improve their position." It says they can't get up or attempt to get up. It says they can't roll over. I don't see how your position is supported by rule, Camron. Now I've got to go to my car to get the book.

By explicitly saying the player may sit up on their back, that is implying that other movements are not permitted. Rising to one knee/one foot is getting up.

Adam Fri Feb 19, 2010 11:54am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 663083)
By explicitly saying the player may sit up on their back, that is implying that other movements are not permitted. Rising to one knee/one foot is getting up.

You're basing this inference on a case play, not the rule. The rule just says he can't stand or attempt to get up. That's it. The player in the video doesn't stand, and he doesn't attempt to get up. His left knee comes off the floor as he gathers leverage for a long shot.

mbyron Fri Feb 19, 2010 12:07pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 663083)
By explicitly saying the player may sit up on their back, that is implying that other movements are not permitted. Rising to one knee/one foot is getting up.

I disagree with your reading. The rule provides an example of a movement that's not to be interpreted as "attempting to get up."

That does not imply that it's the ONLY such movement.

Camron Rust Fri Feb 19, 2010 01:01pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 663087)
You're basing this inference on a case play, not the rule. The rule just says he can't stand or attempt to get up. That's it. The player in the video doesn't stand, and he doesn't attempt to get up. His left knee comes off the floor as he gathers leverage for a long shot.

Again, I wasn't commenting on the video....I've not seen it.

If a player, on both knees merely raises one as they are passing/shooting the ball...nothing....I agree.

But if they raise their knee then place that foot on the ground as in the first step of getting up, they have traveled.

Adam Fri Feb 19, 2010 01:11pm

If you interpret that movement as "attempting to stand," I can agree with it. It's not just the knee coming up, though, it's other movements associated with standing as well. I think you would agree the video is not traveling, as the foot never really gets under the knee. Even if it did, though, I won't call it until the player actually stands or attempts to get up. If he's on two knees, and lifts one to put the foot down and steady himself, I've got nothing except the start of a 5 or 10 count.

BillyMac Fri Feb 19, 2010 06:37pm

Knee Jerk Reaction ???
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 663113)
If a player, on both knees merely raises one as they are passing/shooting the ball ...

It depends? Did he lift his pivot knee and return it to the floor before the ball was released?

tomegun Sat Feb 20, 2010 04:23pm

The player in question is from the great state of Mississippi :D and went to Biloxi High (state champs last season).

It doesn't matter in the travel/no travel discussion though. I saw the video once on Sportscenter.

Skarecrow Sat Feb 20, 2010 06:40pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 663113)
Again, I wasn't commenting on the video....I've not seen it.

If a player, on both knees merely raises one as they are passing/shooting the ball...nothing....I agree.

But if they raise their knee then place that foot on the ground as in the first step of getting up, they have traveled.

Better watch the video, then comment....

just another ref Sat Feb 20, 2010 07:00pm

I agree that in this video the foot on the floor does seem to be a part of this unique shooting motion, rather than an attempt to stand. But the other 99% of the time putting a foot on the floor is a logical first step in the process of standing up. So, if a player is on the floor, on his knees or any other body part, if he puts a foot on the floor I don't see how anybody could complain if traveling is called, regardless of what the player thought his intentions were.

Adam Sat Feb 20, 2010 07:20pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 663336)
I agree that in this video the foot on the floor does seem to be a part of this unique shooting motion, rather than an attempt to stand. But the other 99% of the time putting a foot on the floor is a logical first step in the process of standing up. So, if a player is on the floor, on his knees or any other body part, if he puts a foot on the floor I don't see how anybody could complain if traveling is called, regardless of what the player thought his intentions were.

Fair enough, but I would prefer to wait until he actually stands.

just another ref Sat Feb 20, 2010 07:37pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 663337)
Fair enough, but I would prefer to wait until he actually stands.

I just reread this rule and did not realize this is how it was worded.

......while on the floor........may not attempt to get up or stand.

So getting up and standing are two different things, then?

All the more reason this guy better not put that foot on the floor.

Judtech Sat Feb 20, 2010 10:19pm

I guess my initial reaction took a different tack. In watching the video, my initial judgement was that the player went to the floor for a loose ball. As he secured the ball his momentum caused him to slide and when he came to rest, his knee was in the "Upright and locked position"
As for the over and back, sort of hard to tell with the really cool logo at center court.:D

Camron Rust Sat Feb 20, 2010 10:31pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skarecrow (Post 663331)
Better watch the video, then comment....

Why? My comments are not about the play in the video (now said for the 3rd time...or can you not read?) and I have made no claim about what the right call should or should not be on that play. I am only saying how how I distinguish between a travel or legal play. Watching the video will not change that at all.


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