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Mon Sep 02, 2002, 02:51pm
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Micheal Jordan is by far not the greatest basketball player ever. Why do many think MJ is the greatest ever? Is it because of Championships?,Points,? or Records?Jordan is not the best in ay of those fields by far.
Championships:Lets sstart off in College, It took Jordan 3 seasons to win one championship, Celtic Great, Bill Russell won 2 titles in 3 seasons, as well as a 55 game win streak wich is an impressive feat seeing as though every game was on the road. Most Jordan supportets will say that USF made the Final 4 the year after Russell graduated, but consider that UNC made the championship game the year BEFORE Jordan joined. In the NBA Russell won 12 NBA championships in his 13 years as a pro. He also won 11 straight in a row. . Jordan fans like to claim that if Jordan had not retired, the Bulls would have won eight straight, although it is safe to say that in Russels second season, had it not been for a severly sprained ankle, the Celtics would have won the game, even though it did end in an overtime defeat. Like Jordan Russell was forunate enough to have good teamates and coaches. However, consider that the Celtics did not win the title until Russell joined the Celtics, and failed to make the playoffs the year after he retired, going from NBA champion to no playoff appearance. Jordan fans will try to say the same thing about the 1999 seasons, but the Bulls lost eight players, four of which were starters – big difference. This is an undisputed fact: Jordan retired in 1993, and the Bulls still made the playoffs, nearly capturing the best record in the east. It is simple to see that not only was Russell a bigger winner than Jordan, but also more valuable to his team than Jordan was to his team. Jordan fans initially try to say that Russell was a good player who was fortunate enough to play with many good players.Â* This is true.Â* It is also true for Jordan.Â* That explains why he played on 3 losing teams and had a 1-9 playoff record before Scottie Pippen, Horace Grant, and Doug Collins joined the Bulls.Â* You see, no matter how many times the media says otherwise, Jordan could not win by himself.Â* Like Russell, he needed teammates.Â* Unlike Russell, he couldn't win the championship as often, and when he retired, his teammates didn't miss him as much as Russell's. Russell is undisputedly' the games greatest defensive player in NBA history. MVP'S: Karreem Abdul Jabar like Jordan, won 6 titles. But, unlike mj, won more mvp awards. You can say where would he be with Magic Johnson?" This is a fair question.Â* Similarly, I ask, "What did Jordan do without Scottie Pippen?" With out Magic, Jabbar won 1 title, 5 mvp's, reached 2 nba finals, Jordan didn't do anything without Pippen. MJ was the Most Dominating: Lets compare MJ to Wilt Chamberlin shall we? Wilt owns 56 regular season records, Jordan only 4; Wilt owns 7 scoring titles, MJ 10; Wilt has 119 50+ point games, MJ only 30; Wilt led the league in assists, fg%,minutes and rebounds 29 times, MJ 0. Wilt dominated the game like no other. His first year in the league he set rebouding and scoring records that NO other player has broken. In the 1961-62 season he avg. 50.4 ppg. Wilt won seven scoring titles, 11 rebounding titles, and led the league in minutes played 8 times. He averaged over 45 minutes per game every game of his career. In 1967-68 he led the league in assists – something Jordan has never came close to doing. Chamberlain holds the records for points scored in a season and a game (100), rebounds in a game (55), season, and career., as well as minutes played in a season (he averaged 48.5 min/game in 1961-62), and field goal percentage in a season (72.7%). Jordan supports try to attribute this to his hight but, cannot explain why Jabbar could not equal these feats despite being taller. Taller players like Shawn Bradley, Rik Smits, Gheorge Muresan or or Maute Bol never have come close.Jordan-supporters know that JordanÂ’s feats cannot match up to Chamberlains. They point to their career scoring averages, yet cannot explain why Chamberlain has 119 games with 50+ points, to JordanÂ’s 30. Furthermore, while they chalk up Wilt's rebounding dominance to his height advantage, they cannot explain why he led the league in assists, and Jordan could not.Â* 1.All-defensive teams:Â* Jordan's supporters frequently refer to the number of times that Jordan made the All-defensive team.Â* The All-defensive team wasn't created until 1969 - Bill Russell's final season, and yes, Russell did make it. Â* Walt Frazier made the first seven teams (1969-75).Â* It didn't exist during his first 2 seasons. 2.Playoff MVP:Â* This award also wasn't created until 1969. 3. Steals and blocks:Â* These stats weren't officially recorded until the 1974 seasons - Oscar Robertson's final season and the season after Wilt Chamberlain retired.Â* Unofficial stats frequently had Walt Frazier making well over 5 steals, and in Wilt Chamberlain's first game, he unofficially had 17 blocks.Â* One official said that in his estimate, Wilt and Russell averaged about 8 blocks per game that he witnessed them play. 4. Triple-doubles.Â* This stat wasn't officially recorded until the early 1980s.Â* Oscar Robertson averaged a triple-double over the course of his first 5 seasons.Â* Wilt Chamberlain averaged 24.3 ppg, 23.8 rpg, and 8.6 apg. Â* You don't think he had a few triple-doubles that season?Â* (He recorded the only triple-20 (20+ points, rebounds, and assists) in history that season.Â* Toss in blocks, and he had quite a few quadruple-doubles during his career. 5. Defensive Player of the Year.Â* This award wasn't issued until the 1983 season.Â* It's safe to say that Bill Russell would have won quite a few of these, and Wilt probably would have won in 1972 and 73. Mj is not as good as Bill,Wilt, or Walt Frazier or Oscar Robertson. MJ just got more media hype. 
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Mon Sep 02, 2002, 03:16pm
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what is your point? did russell, wilt etc compete against the same level athletes as jordan? i beleive what most people think about jordan is his talent was extraordinary for a man who was only 6'6 compared to other athletes who were significantly taller. its all a matter of opinion anyway. btw im a huge celtic fan, and think peirce and walker are one of the greatest tag team duos in the league.
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tony
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Mon Sep 02, 2002, 03:18pm
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Um, so? Just out of curiosity, why did you post this here? I mean it's certainly an interesting debate, and you've clearly thought about it a lot (a little too much, maybe?). But this is "Officiating" dot com. We talk about officiating for the most part. Your post, while interesting, is probably better suited to a fan forum, rather than an officials' forum. Especially since many here will tell you that they don't really even care about the NBA anymore.
By the way. . . go Celtics!  Chuck
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Any NCAA rules and interpretations in this post are relevant for men's games only!
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Mon Sep 02, 2002, 03:48pm
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Mon Sep 02, 2002, 05:12pm
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Considering that this is an officiating board.........
I think we would be more inclined to debate whether Earl Strom is better than Danny Crawford. Or Ed Rush over Dee Kantner. Now that is a discussion!!!
Peace
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Let us get into "Good Trouble." ----------------------------------------------------------- Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
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Mon Sep 02, 2002, 07:04pm
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Too....many....words....
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9-11-01 http://www.fallenheroesfund.org/fallenheroes/index.php http://www.carydufour.com/marinemoms...llowribbon.jpg
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Tue Sep 03, 2002, 04:24pm
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Wed Sep 04, 2002, 12:24pm
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I have had this debate many times and am of the opinion that the only fair way to compare players of different eras is to rate them against the competition they had at the time. This evens out factors such as advances in coaching, nutrition, travel comfort, facilities (lighting, floor conditions, etc).
If you agree with this, then there is no doubt that the greatest basketball player ever was George Mikan. It was George, not Wilt, who forced the pros to first widen the lane. He won 3 consecutive pro titles in 3 different leagues with different teammates and his nickname was "Unstoppable". Madison Square Garden once had "Knicks vs. George Mikan tonight" on its reader board. The real test is how much better a player was than the next best player of their era. Mikan was so much better than anyone else who played during his era, it would translate to the difference between Jordan and the average guard on a .500 team. There were a lot of players whose skill level was at least somewhat close to Michael's - like Magic, Drexler and Barkley, during his era. No one else during Mikan's era was even in the same ballpark as far as skill level. I doubt there will ever be anyone as dominant as he was ever again.
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Yom HaShoah
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Mon Sep 09, 2002, 01:02am
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I wonder what Wilt would have done against Shaq????
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Pistol
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Mon Sep 09, 2002, 11:24am
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I don't know if you are putting down MJ, or building up BR. Both were great players, and dominated their era. Why does one have to be better? Why does one have to defeat the other. Wouldn't it be great if they could have played together?
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Arkansas Ref
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Mon Sep 09, 2002, 04:01pm
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That is who you meant, isn't it?
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Yom HaShoah
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Mon Sep 09, 2002, 05:11pm
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Mon Sep 09, 2002, 06:22pm
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Quote:
 winkie, even if Tony didn't Chuck
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Any NCAA rules and interpretations in this post are relevant for men's games only!
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Mon Sep 09, 2002, 07:13pm
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I saw it but I thought it was a pretty ridiculous statement whether there was a
or not. MJ was not baseball player but he came a helluva lot closer than Ruth would to be a basketball player. IMHO, he was a far greater athlete.And Todd was talking about Russell, not Ruth.
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